Sunday, August 30, 2009

You really a MALAYSIAN ka?




Drop whatever you're doing, stand up at attention, put your right hand on your heart, and sing OUT LOUD your Negara's national anthem.

Then pledge OUT LOUD the five tenets of your Negara's Rukunegara.

If you did both well, give yourself a good pat on the back. But if you could hardly sing along the Negaraku with neither the ability to pronounce the sacred lyrics nor actually comprehend their meaning or lost for words in your pathetic attempt to lafaz the Rukunegara, give yourself a good tight slap ..... on BOTH cheeks and stop pretending that you are a Malaysian ..... because in my book you are not.


For the rest of us Malaysians, go here and show your worthiness as a Rakyat Malaysia by giving your heartful support to One School for All .................... SATU SEKOLAH UNTUK SEMUA, the fundamental bedrock in the creation of a cohesive Anak Bangsa Malaysia.


133 comments:

satD said...

Salam Merdeka!!! Bro KijangMas

to all pseudo Malaysians let me know if u need an extra hand....i got four to spare :P

Kama said...

Salam Merdeka to you too Kijangmas. Truth be told, I feel extra-patriotic this year, in the midst of current upheavals...

PS: SatD, good one. "These hands are made for slapping..." :-)

zazaland said...

Salam Merdeka To Real Malaysians.

---------------------------------

(For so-called Malaysians, please ask yourselves if you really wanna be true MALAYSIANS. If yes, BAGUS....if not, then it is high time to reconsider your status in Malaysia).

ps....hope you know what actually is a 'true Malaysian'...

tokasid said...

Merdekakan jiwa dari kebatilan. Merdekakan perbuatan dari maksiat. Merdekakan ibadah dari bid'ah. Merdekakan akal dari kejumudan. Merdekakan hati dari buruk sangka.

Singh Is Kinng said...

Salam YM Abe Kijang Mas,

Always refreshing and rejuvenating to hear again from KM.

Jange kato kito ni anok Melayu kalu dok biar ore lain layan kita mace kayu.

Jange kato kito ni anok Malaysia kalu tok fasih kecek bahasa ibunda.

Jange kato kite ni Isle kalu dok gadai maruah agama atah nama kongsi kuasa.

One school, one language, and one objective, the rest are lame excuses.

Wassalam.

House PK said...

Salam Merdeka buat kekandaku Kijang Mas!

Mintak izin nak copy artikel ini ke dalam blog saya! Terima Kasih

MERDEKA!

NJ said...

Salam Merdeka Tuan KijangMas Perkasa!


Kita Anak Malaysia !
Satu Bangsa, Satu Negara, Satu Bahasa.

NJ

Semerah Padi said...

Salam Merdeka Sdr. KijangMas!

"Negaraku, Tanah Tumpah Darahku"

Semerah Padi

koolmokcikZ said...

Selamat hari kemerdekaan yang ke 52.

Last night I saw a programme on Discovery about a lion dance competition world level. Malaysian team made it AGAIN as the champion. Watching the happiness of the team members as they hugged one another ... it was pure joy.

I thought it was held in China or Taiwan or Hong Kong or Singapore. But turned out it was held in Genting Highland. Sadly, not even one Malaysian flag was shown in the show. And what struck me most was the absence of Malaysianess in the show. I expect in an event at world level, at least Minister of Tourism would be there to present the championship cup.

Sad.

I remember once as I was undergoing physiotherapy at a hospital, a lady alleged that the chinese in Singapore are LESS chinese than the chinese in Malaysia. This winning kind of accentuate that allegation. They are even better than the mainland chinese in lion dance.

What do you know. They are Malaysian Chinese. In America, the citizens are identified as African American or Korean American to denote they are American citizens of African or Korean decendant.

So why Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indian?

I do not believe it is a linguistic error. We got our independence from the British. Should there be any linguistic error in the official term used for such reference, I am sure it would not go uncorrected.

So what do Malaysia Chinese and Malaysian Indian denote? That they are Chinese and Indian CITIZENS of Malaysian descendant?

I am also of the opinion that is the purpose of vernacular schools. To prepare their children for the time they go back home to their mainland.

But no! As time goes by, this land of plenty under the tropical sea offers more opportunities. As the saying goes, "Seperti Belanda minta tanah" and "Beri betis hendak paha" they wouldn't be happy until they get everything. Look at Singapore!

What a sad affair.

Omong said...

Hey KijangMas

Those criteria and more, should be made compulsory in the citizenship test.

Failures should be rendered non-citizens??

Naif said...

Salam Merdeka Tuan KM!

May I know who created the SSS website? Whoever it is, I'd like to thank him for including me as one of the "E-Patriots". An honour indeed.

Naif

JiwaMerdeka said...

Totally Agree with Cool Makcik.

Malaysian chinese and indian.. please rethink about your malaysian citizenship.

Chinese malaysian and indian malaysian.. do contribute to this nation together with the rest.


Merdekakan diri dari ideology China.
Merdekakan diri dari ideology India.
Merdekakan diri dari ideology liberal Amerika.

ABOLISH VERNACULAR SCHOOL FOR A BETTER AND UNIFIED MALAYSIA!!

Selamat Hari Merdeka!

Anonymous said...

Dear KijangMas,
Selamat Menyambut Kemerdekaan ke 52. Semoga sama2 kita bangkitkan kembali semangat kenegaraan dan cintakan tanah air.


'I am also of the opinion that is the purpose of vernacular schools. To prepare their children for the time they go back home to their mainland'

Vernacular school sepatutnya bersifat sementara dan merupakan ehsan dari pemerintah apabila kaum2lain minta ruang bagi kaum2 mereka mempelajari bahasa Melayu & budaya Melayu dalam aliran bahasa mereka. Apabila dah mantap maka dibubarkan tetapi malangnya yang sebaliknya berlaku seperti yang lain-lain yang berlaku sekarang.

Dal said...

Just back last night from 4 days and 3 nights of family camping at the Banjaran Titiwangsa via an abandon logging trail 17km into the jungle from Kerling, just to be away from the merdeka celebration of 1Malaysia whose heads and tails look alike, for it induces more questions than answers for many.

On the first opportunity, visited the SSS new site, left a simple comment, only then come visiting here. Sorry Tuan KijangMas, I normally drop in here first before anywhere else. Lets just say a new star is born in the bleak Malaysian sky, what with a section of the pretender-citizens do not appreciate this beloved nation.

SSS Admin said...

Tuan KijangMas,

Kami ingin merakamkan rasa setinggi-tinggi penghargaan kami terhadap Tuan sempena kelahiran Portal Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua di wordpress.

Di laman citra Demi Negara inilah, SSS di ilhamkan, dicetuskan serta dikandung sehingga SSS dilahirkan di wordpress pada hari Merdeka.

Tiada ucapan yang dapat kami coretkan di sini untuk membayangi rasa penghargaan kami terhadap Tuan.

Terima kasih Tuan.

Kembara Politik said...

Salam KijangMas,

Begitu bersemangat apabila membaca post yang pendek tapi padat ini.

Semoga semua rakyat dapat berfikir matang. Sematang usia 52 tahun kemerdekaan tanah air tercinta.

Tamim Dari said...

Salam Master KijangMas;

God bless you with further strength, courage, kindness and prosperity.

Is a blessing from God that your community, the DN Community have successfully given birth to another star of a website no less promising than yours. I most proudly congratulate you.

May yours and your "progeny's" efforts and struggles are met with God's kindness and approval always.

msleepyhead said...

Salam KM and others,

Interesting read: http://tinyurl.com/m87owu

Malaysian Chinese will over time be Chinese Malaysian soon, and hopefully not too long after that just Malaysian. But we have to understand the special circumstances in this land, where 'Malay identity' is constantly projected to the forefront like what KM would like to see happen, and we are also constantly reminded by others here that this is Tanah Melayu.

Compare that to Indonesia, where assimilation to some form has occurred, perhaps due to legislation (I did not do the research, maybe SatD can clue us in) but the difference might be no strong racial identity that was constantly promoted but a national identity based on the Nusantara culture. As there are Christian, Buddhist and Hindu Indonesians of the Nusantara stock with the same cultural heritage, they may be more tolerant towards their immigrants. (my speculation all the way)

Assimilation will be hard here for the simple reason of religion, that will take a lot, as religion is just as much tied to cultural identity and the constitutional identity of the Malays itself simply means that racial identification will be a fact of life. Their cultural identity is simply a response to the Malay identity.

And for the SSS, 1Malaysia, etc to really succeed, all this needs to be factored in. Vernacular schools are already here, call them cancer if you will, but like its given namesake have taken root and have spread all over the nation.

It's no longer about what should have been done or what they should do by themselves, or being grateful because the generation that was granted citizenship is probably grateful, but the next one thinks that this is home, and why shouldn't everyone be treated fairly in their home.

Now the website is up, that's another step closer to our goal, but repeating the same emotional outburst of them, them, them who is wrong will not get us anywhere.

NJ said...

Salam Sejahtera Tuan KijangMas Perkasa & Sidang DN sekelian,

Mempelajari bahasa-bahasa lain seperti cina, tamil dsb adalah dibenarkan dan ini dilindungi (?) di bawah Perlembagaan Negara.

Tetapi menggunakan bahasa cina dan bahasa tamil dan lain-lain bahasa asing sebagai media penghantar (samada dalam pembelajaran, komunikasi rasmi seperti papan tanda, blog 1Malaysia, hehehehhe.. dsb) adalah bertentangan dengan Akta Bahasa Kebangsaan dan Penggunaan Bahasa Melayu sebagai Bahasa Kebangsaan sepertimana yang diperuntukkan oleh Perlembagaan Persekutuan.

Di SRJK depa guna bahasa cina dan tamil untuk belajar sains & matematik umpamanya. Bahasa Malaysia pun diajar dalam bahasa cina & tamil juga ke?

Harap ada dikalangan pembaca dari bidang undang-undang (yakni orang yang mahir dalam bidang perundangan, bukannya loyar buruk ..hehehehe) dapat menjelaskan perkara ini serta memperbetulkan tulisan ini sekiranya didapati tidak betul.

"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"

NJ

Anonymous said...

YM KijangMas,

I will 100% support you on this noble cause!

Salam Merdeka!

-AnakMerdeka-

Retrogina said...

Salam Kijang Mas,

I read this posting of yours with a serious tone (while having a cuppa)and when it came to the part when you said "give yourself a good tight slap..." I spewed my tea. Cheh! Habih basah keyboard.

I had a good laugh. I share your sentiment. Depa semua ni nak kena bagi penampaq.

Salam Merdeka to all Malaysians. You know who you are.

Semerah Padi said...

Salam Sdr Kijang Mas,

Berkenaan ura-ura untuk tidak menggunapakai lagi identiti kaum di borang-borang (umpamanya), saya merasakan akan bersetuju dengan cadangan itu di mana kita semua akan dikenali sebagai "Bangsa Malaysia". Tapi saya tidak bersetuju ianya dilakukan sekarang atau pada waktu terdekat ini kerana di antara kita, masih lagi ada yang berpegang teguh kepada identiti asing masing-masing, dan akan menjadikan "Bangsa Malaysia" itu hanyalah suatu impian belaka.

Dalam Perlembagaan hanya disebut 5 kaum sahaja:-

(i) Orang Asli
(ii) Melayu
(iii) Bumiputera Sarawak
(iv) Bumiputera Sabah
(v) Lain-lain kaum

ruj: Hidup Tuah!

Sepatutnya segala borang-borang rasmi hanya berpandukan kepada 5 kaum yang ternyata di atas.

Kewujudan sekolah vernakular menguatkan lagi identiti-identiti kaum yang langsung tidak termaktub dalam Perlembagaan. (kaum asing)

Ada orang mempertikaikan kewujudan MRSM dalam bila Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua ini diutarakan.

Beza antara MRSM dan sekolah vernakular adalah:-

1. Penubuhan MRSM (dibawah MARA) adalah melalui peruntukan perundangan (bermula dari RIDA yg ditubuhkan oleh kolonial British semenjak tahun 1950an lagi, kemudian diperkembangkan kepada MARA melalui Akta Parlimen Mac 1966) manakala sekolah vernakular yang ada pada hari ini adalah hasil dari desakan yang bersifat penentangan terhadap Penyata Barnes & Penyata Razak sejak dahulu lagi.

2. Dari segi penggunaan bahasa, MRSM bersifat nasional kerana memenuhi kehendak Perlembagaan dan Akta Bahasa Kebangsaan manakala sekolah vernakular bersifat anti-nasional apabila menggunakan bahasa asing sebagai bahasa pengantar.

Sekiranya keadaan yang "tidak bersepadu" ini telah wujud kian lama ibaratkan "kanser", there is something we can still do about it

- ubati "kanser" itu dengan apa cara sekalipun, kaedah sainstifik atau tidak, kaedah quantum fizik ataupun bomoh, apa-apa sajalah!

- atau biar rosak binasa tubuh badan yang ada dan tunggu kelahiran baru! (Bagaimana?)

Tidak rela kita berterusan hidup di dalam keadaan "cancerous" ini!

Telah sampai tindakan tegas di ambil. Mereka-mereka yang terang-terang berdegil dengan semangat anti-nasional, wajarlah dibuang negara!

"Negara ini beridentitikan Malaysia"

Semerah Padi

Omong said...

msleepyhead

Actually the vernacular schools (VS) are an icon of the state of being 'pendatangs'.

If the next generation feels this is home, why the need for VS??

SSS does not aim to diminish your ancestral cultures. It aims to unite the rakyat based on ONE common language.

The best way, is to start from young under one unified system.

The chinese Indonesians speak their national language perfectly, even when they are overseas.

Most of them mix socially well among the majority. Based on anecdotal evidence they even attend weddings or funerals of their neighbours with ease.

Anonymous said...

YM KijangMas,

Saya tak tahu kenapa rakyat terlalu takut untuk berjuang dengan mempersoal/menyentuh sekolah vernakular ini.

Saya melihat bahawa usaha SSS adalah usaha paling berani dan ianya tidak pun melanggar undang-undang negara.

Mari kita rujuk Perlembagaan Persekutuan berkenaan Perkara 152 iaitu Bahasa kebangsaan. Tertera seperti berikut:

Perkara 152. Bahasa Kebangsaan.

(1) Bahasa kebangsaan ialah bahasa Melayu dan hendaklah dalam tulisan yang diperuntukkan melalui undang-undang oleh Parlimen:

Dengan syarat bahawa—

(a) tiada seorang pun boleh dilarang atau dihalang daripada menggunakan (selain bagi maksud rasmi), atau daripada mengajarkan atau belajar, apa-apa bahasa lain; dan

(b) tiada apa-apa jua dalam Fasal ini boleh menjejaskan hak Kerajaan Persekutuan atau hak mana-mana Kerajaan Negeri untuk memelihara dan meneruskan penggunaan dan pengajian bahasa mana-mana kaum lain di dalam Persekutuan.

(2) Walau apa pun peruntukan Fasal (1), selama tempoh sepuluh tahun selepas Hari Merdeka, dan selepas itu sehingga diperuntukkan selainnya oleh Parlimen, bahasa Inggeris boleh digunakan di dalam kedua-dua Majlis Parlimen, di dalam Dewan Undangan tiap-tiap Negeri, dan bagi segala maksud rasmi yang lain.

(3) Walau apa pun peruntukan Fasal (1), selama tempoh sepuluh tahun selepas Hari Merdeka, dan selepas itu sehingga diperuntukkan selainnya oleh Parlimen, teks sahih—

(a) segala Rang Undang-Undang yang hendak dibawa atau pindaan kepadanya yang hendak dicadangkan di dalam mana-mana satu Majlis Parlimen; dan

(b) segala Akta Parlimen dan segala perundangan subsidiari yang dikeluarkan oleh Kerajaan Persekutuan, hendaklah dalam bahasa Inggeris.

(4) Walau apa pun peruntukan Fasal (1), selama tempoh sepuluh tahun selepas Hari Merdeka, dan selepas itu sehingga diperuntukkan selainnya oleh Parlimen, segala prosiding di dalam Mahkamah Persekutuan, Mahkamah Rayuan atau Mahkamah Tinggi hendaklah dalam bahasa Inggeris:

Dengan syarat bahawa, jika Mahkamah dan peguam bagi kedua-dua pihak bersetuju, keterangan yang diambil dalam bahasa yang digunakan oleh saksi tidak perlu diterjemahkan ke dalam atau direkodkan dalam bahasa Inggeris.

(5) Walau apa pun peruntukan Fasal (1), sehingga diperuntukkan selainnya oleh Parlimen, segala prosiding di dalam mahkamah rendah, selain pengambilan keterangan, hendaklah dalam bahasa Inggeris.

(6) Dalam Perkara ini, "maksud rasmi" ertinya apa-apa maksud Kerajaan, sama ada Kerajaan Persekutuan atau Kerajaan Negeri, dan termasuklah apa-apa maksud sesuatu pihak berkuasa awam.
*****

Adakah berlakunya konflik antara SSS dan Perkara 152 tersebut?

Saya berani jamin bahawa tidak ada satu pun konflik. Malahan, SSS dan Perkara 152 sangat selari hala tujunya.

-AnakMerdeka-

Anonymous said...

Semerah Padi (SM),

Saya adalah produk MRSM. Dan untuk makluman SM dan semua, semasa saya belajar terdapat pelbagai kaum di dalam MRSM itu. Ada Bidayuh, Melanau, Iban, Kadazan, Dusun, India, Cina dan lain-lain.

MRSM menggunakan BM sebagai bahasa pengantar utama. Namun bahasa Inggeris tetap diutamakan untuk membolehkan kami sentiasa bersedia dengan segala ilmu yang bercambah dan berkembang dalam bahasa Inggeris di luar sana.

Saya tak kisah jika Sains/Matematik diajar dalam bahasa Inggeris kerana jika dilihat SK masih lagi menggunakan BM sebagai bahasa pengantar utama.

Persoalannya, mengapa mesti SJK Cina dan Tamil tidak mahu menggunakan BM sebagai bahasa pengantar utama? Ajar Sains dan Matematik dalam Cina/Tamil. Ajar Sivik dan Kenegaraan, Kemahiran Hidup, Pendidikan Seni, Pendidikan Jasmani dan Kesihatan, Pendidikan Moral pun semuanya dalam bahasa vernakular. Penyudahnya mungkin hanya BM diajar dalam BM (agaknya).

Hasilnya bersepah-sepah produk vernakular ini terpaksa masuk kelas persediaan ke Tingkatan 1 kerana tahap penguasaan yang amat lemah dalam BM.

Mana letaknya status BM yang diangkat sebagai Bahasa Kebangsaan dalam Perlembagaan?

Mari sama-sama berdebat!

-AnakMerdeka-

Anonymous said...

"Malaysian Chinese will over time be Chinese Malaysian soon, and hopefully not too long after that just Malaysian."

Membaca ayat pertama sahaja, membuatkan pembaca menggaru kepala.

Persoalan:

1. Kenapa wujudnya kenyataan seperti ini? Adakah penulis tersebut akui bahawa Malaysian Chinese masih lagi tidak berupaya menjadi Chinese Malaysia?

2. Sudah 52 tahun tanah air merdeka. Mengapa masih lagi mengharapkan perkataan seperti "over time"? Mengapa masih gagal?

Dan perlu diingat bahawa kita semua adalah rakyat Malaysia, yang mana semuanya tercatat dalam myKad masing-masing bahawa kerakyatan kita adalah MALAYSIA!

Teringat kata-kata rakan semasa di luar negeri:

Pelik kenapa rakyat Malaysia yang belajar di luar negeri boleh cakap mereka adalah Chinese?

Kita semua adalah rakyat Malaysia!

-AnakMerdeka-

satD said...

Salam from the Ring of Fire Folks.....

Just had a 7.4 Richter Quake yesterday........what a rush...

anyway Ms Sleepyhead on ur query.

Yes the assimilation in Indonesia is via regulation-

President Suharto issued his 1967 decree which forbade any activities pertaining to

1. Chinese religion or culture.(so no CNY for almost 30 odd years in Indonesia)

2. Chinese schools and
organisations were banned.

3.Chinese personal and business names were forbidden.

4.The use of Chinese script was banned, except for the dual-text newspaper Harian Indonesia,
which was given a strict licence to publish news in both Indonesian and Mandarin (four
pages in each language)

This decree was revoked on 17 January 2000 by President Abdulrahman Wahid

The Chinese in Malaysia to me have had an easy ride in comparison to their kind in Indonesia or Thailand....

I got folks in Indonesia asking me ape pasal Cina kat malaysia kurang ajar gile babeng.....tak tahu adap nak menetap kat negeri orang

Gua senyum kambing aje...

NJ said...

Saudara satD,

Mari Pangestu adalah seorang menteri (Menteri Perdagangan/Trade Minister) wanita warga Indonesia.

(Sumber : Caraka - Edisi Kemerdekaan 2009 yang saya ambil di Kedutaan Indonesia kelmarin)

Kalau hanya pada nama "Mari Pangestu" sudah tentu sukar bagi saya untuk mengetahui apakah keturunannya. Sebagai jawapan pasti, saya akan berkata bahawa beliau adalah Bangsa Indonesia.

Di bawah foto Mari Pangestu, ada tertulis:-

"Mari Pangestu adalah salah satu warga Indonesia keturunan Tionghoa yang menjadi Menteri"

"Indonesia trade minister Mari Pangestu is one of Chinese Indonesian who become minister"

dan satu lagi petikan dari Caraka Edisi Kemerdekaan 2009 tersebut:-

"Engineer Basuki Tjahaja Purnama alias Zhong Wan Xie, who is popularly called Ko Ahok, was elected the head of the Belitung district."

Agaknya kita di Malaysia ini terlampau berbudi bahasa, lemah lembut dan teramat bersopan santun sehinggakan orang mengambil kesempatan untuk meletakkan Kasut Atas Kepala. (hehehe... mengambil kesempatan ke atas tajuk tulisan blog untuk menonjolkan keadaan yang tidak sama rata)


"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"

NJ

Anonymous said...

"I got folks in Indonesia asking me ape pasal Cina kat malaysia kurang ajar gile babeng.....tak tahu adap nak menetap kat negeri orang"


In order for 1malaysia to succeed, the kaum lain-lain (aside from the 4 main kaum in the perlembagaan) must really understand what Ketuanan Melayu means.

satD said...

NJ

The situation was worst in Indonesia

"The Chinese as an exclusive group refuse other group to enter, specially in economy. They were so exclusive that in their practice they become monopolistic."- Assat Dato Mundo 19/March/1956

That statement became the foundation of the first law PP10 which nationalised businesses outside the urban areas.

At least we did not take their business by Force..

Anonymous said...

Selamat menyambut Merdeka! Merdeka! Merdeka! Merdeka!

Tengok video 1Malaysia. India jatuh tersembam...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEeZ7O7uik

zazaland said...

Salam Tuan KijangMas and the DN Community.

As I will be away somewhere in planet Mars, let me take this opportunity to wish fellow Muslims a very Happy Hari Raya Aidilfitri 2009.

(I know it is kinda early to wish SHR but as I'll be in Mars, this is ok I think......who knows I can't phone home ....).

Dan ini, khas untuk Tuan KM dan Kommuniti Deminegara:

Sempena Syawal yang mulia yang akan menjelang,

Ku mohon ampun dan maaf diatas segala kekasaran, baik yang sengaja atau tak sengaja dari segi bahasa penulisan ku atau apa-apa jua. Diharap segala amal kebaikan kalian diberkati oleh Allah SWT.

Love you all.....

"zazaland"

zazaland said...

Re: my previous comment.

Folks, "kebaikan" should be read as "kebajikan". Sorry.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

"... the generation that was granted citizenship is probably grateful, but the next one thinks that this is home, and why shouldn't everyone be treated fairly in their home."

There's no problem about them thinking this is home so long as they recognise and accept the established facts of history of Malaya/ Malaysia, the Social Contract between the leaders of the major communities at Merdeka, respect, abide and live by the Constitution of the country. This encompasses the whole range of the constitutional provisions, including on the Malay or Official Language, on Citizenship and the Special Position of the Malays.

I think by and large the non-Malays do accept and respect them. But a sizeable proportion, especially adherents of the mischievous concept of so-called "Malaysian Malaysia", don't. Also a number of subversive elements who not only want to change the established history of the country but also want the terrorist communists Chin Peng and the Malayan Communist Party be called nationalists. That's the problem. Their writing, their shouting, their demonstrating show that they don't. There are no two ways about the communist terrorists, the Social Contract and the relevant provisions of the Constitution. There's therefore a need to keep reminding them of such things.

I think in the past any emotional outburst had been the response in kind to those comments that have been not quite in order. However, no such disorderly or unbecoming kind of comments have been seen at the new website. Let's all do our bit to reign in the wayward and advise them to go by the established history, respect the Social Contract and fully accept and live by the Constitution of our country.

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

Sigh, perhaps I should state myself in another way as my comments always get taken out of context or others just pick what they don't like instead of taking it as a whole.

Yes, everything is stated in the constitution (as SM provided) and even if it's not, then we know right from wrong but like everything else here it's not so. Corruption is wrong and so is theft, and a long list of other crimes, but hey this is Malaysia.

Ok, let's see, we want to get rid of vernacular schools and have one united schooling system. First, politicians are of no help, both sides of the fence will defend it to their last breath, on one side you have BN and their race based coalition, no way MCA is going to give it up, hence Wee's reaction. They are now in power with PM Najib and his 1Malaysia, so that avenue is closed. On another side, there's DAP who's made their stance clear, so is PR and their ketuanan rakyat.

The trouble is, I don't have a problem with SSS and the abolishment of vernacular schools, and so does everyone here, but in actual Malaysia, people do have a problem with it.

A petition is a start to highlight the situation but so far nobody has really taken it seriously, maybe the economy takes precedence or it will be a political career suicide.

How about some practical ideas for a change? Something that can actually be implemented today.

BaitiBadarudin said...

Selamat menyambut hari merdeka, biarpun terlewat.
Baru pulang dari AS, di sana kalau tak toleh belakang memang tak sangka yang bertutur bahasa inggeris tu bukan asal orang amerika atau kulit putih!

Tommy Yewfigure said...

Hi KM & friends, hope everyone is keeping well in this blessed month. Don’t u worry, I still remember my Negara Ku & the Rukunegara. Who can forget after all those years of drillings/assemblies, not to mention at the back page of your exercise book too.

Hi too Maju, no I did not forget your celoteh dig at me. It’s just that it’s inappropriate to talk about my ‘Hope & Luck’ exploit at those “C” places in this holy month if u knows what I mean. (Nothing to be proud off lah, I still discourage others from falling into this trap). You must have great discipline & know your limitations if u r to indulge in such activity. Anyway nice to know u take an interest in me, still the same old, same old unker if you had not FIGURE that out yet. It's Just a NEW Branding to go ahead with times.

Salam & selamat berpuasa.

Tommy

P/S – Hey satD, glad to know u r safe & sound after that earthquake, bet u much be excited, oops traumatised with all that ‘shakings’ & tremors.

satD said...

aiyoo Unker I kena earthquake also u still put me as an after tot.....

sad ma....gonna go eat my cow head curry served exclusively at the
"150 Years" old restaurant

wanna join...bring the kickapoo along ya

Anonymous said...

Jingoistic claptrap, if this is your test to see who consitututes a Malaysian.

What nest, lining up people against the wall and concentration camps?

Anti-Jingoism

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

I think the promoters recognize that the SSS Proposal is not a plain sailing idea. Nobody said it was going to be so.

They also recognize that political parties have their own agenda and politicians always think of votes, at party and at general elections. But not all are gullible. There are many who are keeping quiet, waiting for the opportune moment to stand up and speak up loudly. They may be in the fringes right now, but their time would come. You see, with increasing racial polarization in the country, we all have to close ranks and there's no better way than to start with the young at school.

Even those in power now would in time see the need to cater to the majority. It's a silent majority right now. They may not be queuing up yet to sign the Petition but the silent majority is in favour of the 1School system.

People are aware that the PM has been trying to win back PRU12 runaway votes and placating them in many ways. The time will come when he would think he has done that sufficiently, or realize that he might lose the silent majority votes and start a new direction.

Politics can change, political parties do change. PAS once worked with UMNO and they may find it expedient to do so again in the future despite Nik Aziz's bitter condemnation of UMNO. Have you asked yourself whoever had thought of PAS-DAP-PKR collaboration before? PAS and DAP are miles away in political stance. Ask yourself, can such collaboration not work in other ways, too?

I don't think the SSS promoters are in a hurry. They will continue with their campaign steadily and surely. As I see it, the aim now is to keep reminding people of the need for the SSS and everything associated with it.

Btw, when you asked about "some practical ideas for a change, something that can actually be implemented today", have you any suggestions yourself? The Rukun Tetangga, the Civics courses, the Muhibbah groups, etc have been tried but racial polarization continues unabated. Nevertheless, should you have any other suggestions, we would be glad to hear them.

And, if you clarify your points well, there's no reason for you to be misunderstood. If anyone wants to explain other things in connection with the points you raise, I would let them if I were you.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

Unker Yew,

Cuba sesekali berpuasa satu bulan untuk merasakan dengan sepenuhnya keistimewaan yang orang Islam perolehi dalam bulan ini.

Even our dear AhSo too observed it in full with us just to give moral support to my little kids.

It is good for your mental and physical health. Who knows when you reach her age, you can still climb the top of a ladders to help your wife clean the ceiling fans?

She is a true Malaysian at heart. This is her only home, the letters she once used to get from relatives in Chinaback was the constant pleas that she help send them MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!

Parents came from China and she was orphaned here at the age of 12, with no one to take care of her except for the kind MALAYs around her neighbourhood then, said she.

Kesusahan hidup dan kesedaran ini telah menjadikan dia seorang Insan China yang sentiasa bersyukur kerana dapat kesenangan hidup dalam Negara yang Tercinta ini.

Regards..
TONGKANG.

Phonont said...

Sleepyhead,

Why don't you start a blog where all you realistic-heads (read: pessimists) can rant and whine on the gloomy "realities" of Malaysian life, and how you should all just let them be and do nothing about it except complaining. I bet your blog will be an instant hit for people who want to see a change and from your previous writings I definitely believe that your readers will look up to you as a source of "practical ideas". Who knows your blog could probably end up as a regular column in Malaysia Today. Good luck!

Deacon1957 said...

A Short note on Anwar Ibrahim

Anwar’s biggest problem is that he is hooked on public attention. The real reason why he is really pissed off and wanted to take revenge against Umno is because Tun put him in prison..

He loved every minute of reformasi because he was at the centre of attention but away in prison, he was dying from public attention deficit and that really made his anger grow

Even his CIA handlers are starting to find this trait annoying you see he is not the only one they have lined up for Malaysia, he has a British counterpart that is working for the same agenda, to destabilise the most prosperous and forward looking Muslim state on the planet, Malaysia. In fact Sept 16 was self sabotaged by Anwar because he realized he could not be in full control due to strong resistance from within his coalition


Remember the Indonesian Karate man who was arrested in Malaysia for solicting prostitues?
His friend is sponsoring the Indon riots
Karate man was arrested here and the official line is that he was looking for girls, the real story is that he was looking for young boys, Anwar may want to deny this link but these two boy lovers are linked by fate, their insatiable love for men have made them kindred spirit. Anwar uses his Indonesian network to generate the current hatred for Malaysia, as part of his global assignment…
Anwar’s links in Indonesia goes to the same operatives in Indonesia where the CIA is known to be very active
Anwar is part of the machinery that have been feeding hate messages into Indonesian Media, every maid brutality case is meticulously and religiously forwarded to the Indonesians to be played up by the Media
If there is no good news then bad news is the only news, that is Anwar’s operating tactic in Malaysia, the same approach is being used by the CIA in Indonesia to damage Malaysia’s reputation and the bond between two well known and resolute Islamic countries,

the long term strategy is to discredit traditional Islam and plant one of two of America’s version of Islam in all Islamic states, the hate-propelled Islam of Ben Laden and hi Wahabbi movement and the Orientalist Islam, which is the same as the agnostic movement in the Christian Church where God is just a discussion point, a focal point for their logic driven moral compass

DEACON1957

Antu sleepy said...

mssleepyhead, you said;

"how about some practical ideas for a change? Something that can actually be implemented today."

can we hear it here?

Anonymous said...

ooii!! jingo lingo bingo!

next is lining you up against the wall, do you like the camp or do you like the tongkang for you to balik tongsang?

my advice - scramble to the tongkang and never set foot here again, you ungrateful immigrant!!!

msleepyhead said...

Thanks for the feedback guys, especially Maju and his patient explanation. I guess there are two types of people here, the ones like Maju and the ones like Phonont who dislikes dissent.

Being pragmatic can sometimes be mistaken for a pessimist. Looks like it's the DN community way or the highway here.

I'm just pointing out the resistance that is in the way. SSS is an idealistic petition, to do what no Malaysian has attempted before, to bring primary school children together and hopefully they will unite.

Ideas? (obviously there are two issues here - the SSS and its objective of unity).

For the SSS, for starters how about getting the opinion of people from vernacular schools on how they can integrate or become nationalized. (Oops or maybe it's too late since the memo singled them out as the cause for disunity) I'm sure there are rational ones who know the system inside out and can contribute a thing or two. What is an offer they can't refuse? What will make them tip over to become a national school? Let's start with the Malay students who've gone to vernacular schools.

For unity, what's keeping our children in their own communities? How about exchange programs between government and vernacular schools? How about offering homestays to lain-lain kaum kids to experience Malay culture or vice versa. That's something that can be done by the DN community also, or is it because we're already so close in each other's faces everyday, there's no need for that.

We need to get back to the basic stuff like teaching English on the tv or radio in Malay. There's nothing wrong with that. Is it because it's already all around us, taught in schools that it is enough? Same goes for teaching BM in Chinese or Tamil on radio or even Wah Lai Toi if that's where the target audience is. If it's the issue of language, then the provisions are already there but the implementation is still lacking.

On the community level, truthfully the adults are too fragmented to be interested in this except for the bunch of us here.

And my previous Malaysian Chinese/Chinese Malaysian comment was in response to koolmokcikZ. Yes, some of them state out loud that they will leave the country at first opportunity but know inside their hearts that they can't for various reasons. It's usually the quiet ones that leave.

msleepyhead said...

And this is for Maju, who took the time to reply, much appreciated. Copy and paste from what I wrote at SatD's blog.

Maju said:
"The Rukun Tetangga, the Civics courses, the Muhibbah groups, etc have been tried but racial polarization continues unabated. Nevertheless, should you have any other suggestions, we would be glad to hear them."

What I wrote at SatD's,

In an ideal debate, a common primary school has got nothing to do with NEP, UITM, MRSM, but in the bigger scheme of thing it does because vernacular schools is essentially a racial matter. It is as simple as saying if you can have your exclusive school why can't we? Btw, the amount of fund that goes into MRSM is not a joke, isn't it also like the Remove classes where additional resources are located for the few, instead of the betterment of the whole education system.

I think everyone has pretty much covered most of the issues regarding the SSS except for the emotional attachment to vernacular schools. Forced nationalization is of course out of the question since we're not into military styled dictatorship.

End of the day it' about balancing the unity aspect with the education opportunity, look at it this way, again emotional pov, the Malays in national school get taken care of with their special position - scholarships, MRSM, UITM, but the Chinese if they go through the national school, sits for Form 6, compete for places in local unis for courses they want. But with Mandarin, they at least have an extra avenue to go to China, Taiwan, and it's exactly in the same niche as the SSS because as you know, to master a language, it's from young.

Education is the core issue here for these guys, if the education system had been 'fairer' and more open in terms of equal opportunity, while taking into consideration and spelling out clearly the 'Special Rights', then maybe there's something to talk about. After all, money consideration comes close to education, surely it's much cheaper to study locally than abroad.

We can't isolate SSS from social issues, but that's what's happening.

Ravin P said...

This is absolute irony. For forty years I have been reminded over and over again to "balik India". Plus not forgetting the amount of government mandated discrimination and racism I have had to endure. So now you conveniently by choosing to ignore the above say that if I can't sing or read the Negaraku or Rukun Negara then I am not a Malaysian. You are bloody right I don't give two hoots about the Negaraku or Rukun Negara or Bahasa Malaysia. Why should I? FYI does the government itself practice what is written in the constitution or the Rukun Negara?

For every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction so deal with it.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead

OK, let's have a cool debate.

Youn said in the bigger scheme of things a common primary school does have something to do with NEP, UITM, MRSM because vernacular schools is essentially a racial matter. Let's talk about these.

Talking about NEP, UITM and MRSM
invariably leads one to talk about British Colonialism, the struggle for independence, the agreement between the Malay and non-Malay leaders just before Merdeka (commonly referred to as the Social Contract), the Constitution which embodies that very Social Contract and the position of Bahasa Melayu.

How else can we discuss those issues without going to the sources of the laws or the authorities that provided for those NEP, MRSM, UITM etc? Those authorities or sources of the laws concerned are the Constitution of the country.

NEP was not just picked out of the blue and implemented. It was conceived from the desperate situation of the Malays where about 60% of the population had only 2% of the wealth of the country in 1970, desperate especially when you think of the bloody May 13, 1969 riots that emanated from the vast disparity between the economic and educational conditions of the Malays compared to the Chinese.

You must know that the British didn't pay much attention to the Malays during their colonial rule, no help or encouragement in wealth-making activities and only a small number of schools in the kampongs where most of the Malays live. Yet the British gave the Chinese all sorts of facilities and assistance to do business and put up enough schools, both at primary and secondary levels, in the towns where most Chinese live.

After the racial riots of 1969, the Government thought of reducing the economic and educational disparities, looked at Artilce 153 of the Constitution on the Special Position of the Malays, and NEP was born. MRSM, UITM etc came with that.

If, after all the hundred over years of Chinese control over the economy and superiority in education, the Chinese still begrudge the Malays having NEP, MRSM, UITM etc, it's not fair. Surely the Chinese cannot be dominating the others in those fields in this country forever? Surely the concept of bridging the gap between the Malays and Chinese in those areas is sensible and necessary to bring about a semblence of "equality" and racial harmony in this country?

But, as Tun Dr Mahathir I think has said, in the process of doing the above, of bridging the gap, there cannot be equality among the races. The Malays will continue to have those privileges until the time the economic and educational disparities have disappeared.

Now, if youaccept all the above, then we can have a sane and reasonable discussion. The key word is "reasonableness". The Malays have been living like step children in their own country under the British in those respects I have stated above. The Chinese were not even citizens in this country - they were in fact stateless persons until Merdeka. Having been given citizenship by the consent of the Malays, and having, in exchange for that, agreed (by non-Malay leaders) on the the Malay Special Position, if you still grudge them (some even question them), that's when the Malays start saying you are not grateful (and some start questioning your citizenship - both ways are not allowed under the law).

Let me know if you agree to the above first, then we can discuss cooly again why the SSS people want only one system of education and in the BM medium of instruction.

Dot.

KijangMas said...

Salam folks,

Thanks to all who dropped by with your thoughts and comments.

Bro satD, sure could use your four hands right now. Lots of hands-on chores in my KB dusun.

--------

Kama said:-
"... I feel extra-patriotic this year, in the midst of current upheavals..."

Yes Kak Puteri, heightened patriotism will form the basis of the backlash by the silent majority, as oft repeated worldwide down the annals of history.

--------

Sdr Singh is Kinng, hujah yang cukup bernas daghi Tok Déka gedébé tersohor béto.

--------

House PK said:-
"Mintak izin nak copy artikel ini ke dalam blog saya!"

Silakan memandaku Parpu. Gunakan apa saja yang tertera di sini buat perjuangan hebat mu.

--------

To Zazaland, Tokasid, NJ and Semerah Padi, salam kembali.

--------

KoolmokcikZ, I note your observations of the socio-identity anomaly afflicting ethnic-Chinese Malaysian citizens.

Yes, like you, we have all marveled at the extreme manifestation of "Chineseness" by this 23% minority group, an ailment I christened Hypersinopsychosis.

"Carriers" of this scourge exhibit exaggerated renditions of hitherto non-existent or imagined ancestral cultural-linguistic markers and expressed these alien symbolisms on Malaysian soil to the traumatic extreme.

Yup, even the real Chinese out of China or Taiwan would be no match for these Sino-Mutants. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the "mainlanders" and Hongkies themselves are soon "guided" to the promised Chinese Cultural Utopia by the MyCard carrying Hypersinopsychosis carriers.

As for the Malaysian Tourism Minister, she is a living embodiment of cultural oxymoronism, often clad in Cheong Sums and cakap-cakap around the world on behalf of Malaysian tourism and culture in barely intelligible SJKC-accented BM and English.

--------

SJKC-educated, spelling-challenged Anti-Jingoism jaw-farted:-
"Jingoistic claptrap, if this is your test to see who consitututes (sic) a Malaysian. What nest (sic), lining up people against the wall and concentration camps?"

Yeah buddy, obviously such requirements would trigger panic attacks among the clueless pseudo-stateless loser bitch mafa like yourself.

You are already a lost cause, a self-alienising damaged good spilling social toxicity on my formerly pristine land.

Now go ahead and continue your pursuit of emigration options ... and take out your trash and turn off the lights on your way OUT of my motherland.

Anonymous said...

Ravin P

You went ranting about being told to "balik India", about "government mandated discrimination and racism". Yet you don't even give examples of the cases or the situations those were said to happen. Let alone the proofs.

Then you use those unsubstantiated claims as the excuse for not being able to sing Negaraku or read Rukun Negara. And you arrogantly said you "don't give two hoots about the Negaraku or Rukun Negara or Bahasa Malaysia". No wonder they have been telling you to "balik India" all these years! You deserve it, man. Nobody wants people like you here.

Then you asked "Why should I?" and accuse the government not practising "what is written in the constitution or the Rukun Negara?"
If you said you don't read Rukun Negara, how can you know what Rukun Negara is and that the government is not practising it?
Again, they are right in telling you to "balik India".

Hey man, think before you say those things and such thing as "For every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction".

If you are not happy with the Government, say it out with justification, proofs, or at least details of what they are all about. If you start lashing out with a few sentences of wild accusations here and there, nobody can tolerate you anywhere you go.

Zen

Anonymous said...

Ravin P,

Golongan Bumiputra terdiri dari bermacam jenis Bangsa, agama, adat dan budaya.Just count the numbers!

The Bajaus, Dayaks, Jakuns, Kadazans etc etc have their own languages, but we communicate well using the National Language and majority of our kids attend the National School.

I have live-in Chinese Amahs, and occasionally Amoys and Indian maids working in our homes for the last 40years.. I don't see any problems, as I prefer Malaysians to Indon maids.

Yang duk asyik rasa diri mereka terasing dan SHOUTING everyone being racists ni sebenarnya siapa?

Dan kenapa nak berasingan sangat, sampai nak sama sekolah pun takmau, Bahasa pengantaran pun nak sangat kekal Bahasa yang diguna dari Negara Luar seperti India dan China?

Dengan majoriti rakyat sini, anak2 kecil you all nak berkomunikasi dalam bahasa Luar Negara ker?

Tongkang

Anonymous said...

For forty years I have been reminded over and over again to "balik India"

I add one more day to your years!

Ravin P aney!!! balik India la weii!!

..I can't sing or read the Negaraku or Rukun Negara then I am not a Malaysian. You are bloody right I don't give two hoots about the Negaraku or Rukun Negara or Bahasa Malaysia. - says Ravin P

I dont expect you to. Just sing and read your negara India or rukun India (whatever they are) and do it there, not here in Malaysia!

And you are bloody right too, YOU ARE NOT MALAYSIAN! and save your two hoots. Now get lost, pundek!!

Antu Keling

Anti anti-nasional said...

mssleepyhead,

Let see what you have said here:-

..getting the opinion of people from vernacular schools on how they can integrate or become nationalized.

So you accept the fact that vernacular schools product are not integrated within the Malaysia society? They are not nationalized?
After in existence for so long and 52 years of Merdeka?

Wow! thank you! Now that you realized it!

What is an offer they can't refuse? What will make them tip over to become a national school?

Wow! the vernacular schools need to be enticed to become a national school?

Again, thank you for the realization that vernacular school are NON-NATIONAL school. But who are they that need to be enticed in this Nation called Malaysia? Why not just go back to the nation (wherever the nation is) so that no enticing is necessary? Necessary? sorry, but my foot!

For unity, what's keeping our children in their own communities? How about exchange programs between government and vernacular schools?

Own communities? A community foreign to this Country I supposed. Clearly you are saying that vernacular schools are so foreign to the government of Malaysia that exchange programs are necessary. Like speaking to another foreign nationals, it sounded.

If it's the issue of language, then the provisions are already there but the implementation is still lacking.

Implementation is lacking or rather become very hard to implement when the product of vernacular schools keep opposing, shouting, refusing to become Malaysians by the yardstick of Rukun Negara & Perlembagaan of Malaysia I supposed.

Hey, maybe the the Thais and Indons did it much better than the Malaysians.

To them, there is no 2-way about it, either you are Thais/Indons or you are not! Malaysians have many ways such that until today there are many 'malaysians-at-lip-but-foreign-nationals-at-all-others' roaming in this land.

But the realization is, msleepy acknowledged that vernacular schools are NON-NATIONAL that is, FOREIGN to this land! Thank you. Now do something about it!

msleepyhead said...

Firstly, to get it out of the way. I'm not defending the vernacular schools, only stating out the situation now, what's likely in their heads and speculations on why they would oppose the SSS. msleepy's a product of national schooling all the way and only bilingual in Bahasa Malaysia and English if it matters.

As Dot pointed out, during the British rule, the education system was favorable to town dwellers and the Chinese. Can we similarly say, the education system post-Merdeka till today is favorable to the Malays? And that's ok, it's all legit, to close the economic gap between the races, to uplift the Malays.

There is no question of the legitimacy of the NEP and its institutions or policies. Everything is in the constitution and will be there till eternity.

I'm just voicing out what I think are valid reasonings that why people would oppose the SSS or not actually the SSS but anything that calls for the abolishment/conversion/dissolution of vernacular schools.

1. vernacular schools, at least the Chinese ones, by their language allow access to Chinese (China, Taiwan, etc) universities as an alternate route to higher education, this can be due to competition at local universities, economic, or personal reasons.

2. mastery of language is best done through immersion from young, hence all subjects and the environment are in Mandarin.

Anti anti-nasional, thanks for the kind attention and analysis of my comment but can we stick to the issue and not on the personality. Again, there's no question about the constitution, or what I realize, what's more relevant is the situation now - the existence of thousands of vernacular schools, since the people in power are unlikely to invoke the constitution and nationalize them ala Indonesia or Thai, the other way is to tip them over. But you would think that that's beneath you and we should muscle our way through somehow.

My suggestion to get their point of views starting from the Malays who've gone through the vernacular system is merely to understand their hesitation and bring them to the SSS side.

If dissent is not tolerated here and no debate is allowed, I'll take it elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

I am glad you put out a few suggestions. But let me say 1-2 things before going to them.

I am hoping you would understand that those among us who choose to say things in an "assertive" manner do so because they feel very strongly for the issues being brought up or the statements being criticised. I think they feel that so many explanations have been made so many times in the past and, on Bahasa Malaysia for example, its importance is simply not arguable. Not that they dislike dissent but that they think there are people who are "unreasonable".

On your suggestions -

1. getting the opinion of people from vernacular schools on how they can integrate or become nationalized:

I think, first, the vernacular schools people have to accept the need for integration and say so publicly, as force is not an option under the SSS Proposal. The onus is on them as Malaysian citizens who should respect the position of BM under the Constitution.

Secondly, this is what the proposed in-depth study of the existing educational system(s) is all about. When the study is being done, the pros and cons, the strengths and weaknesses of the system can be looked at thoroughly. The SSS promoters are confident that a one-school system is the best solution but they are not rammimg it down everybody's throat - they are asking that a study be carried out.

The vernacular schools people can even sign the Petition and speak for the carrying out of the study. They should not have anything to fear if they are confident of the justification of the existing system(s). After all, the SSS Proposal also calls for an experienced and independent Study Team to undertake the job, which is expected to be a mammoth one lasting 1-2 years. It should be a serious matter of a national policy research, not just something deliberated by the usual committes comprising of government people and politicians with vested interests.

2. exchange programs between government and vernacular schools:

This is best tackled after or even included in the scope of work of the Study Team. To do anything before the existing system is revamped may just confuse the issues.

3. offering homestays to lain-lain kaum kids to experience Malay culture or vice versa.

This, to me, is a good suggestion. It will certainly help promote goodwill and understanding, and a sense of comraderie. The few kids I see being encouraged by their parents to visit one another inter-communally behave and appear as if they don't have any communal barriers except on religious grounds.

It's very heartening to see them walking jovially, sometimes one fellow's arm over the shoulder of the other. These are children from the national schools. That's why relationships would improve if there's only one school for all in the country.

I am told the SSS Campaign is still in the early (online) stage now. I am quite sure your idea would be picked up and perhaps implemented in some measure during their next (offline) stage. They are very serious these people, and would not ignore any good suggestions.

I'll touch on your other points next time.

Maju.

Pala Otak Hang said...

"What is an offer they can't refuse? What will make them tip over to become a national school?"

Mengada2 betoi. Nak ajak bersatu pun nak berkira2. Lu ingat lu siapa special sgt sampai kena ada offer you can't refuse? Mana ada di tempat lain kaum minority boleh demand sekolah sendiri? US ada sekolah Mexicans ka? UK got sekolah Pakistan meh? Germany got sekolah Arab or not? Tengoklah tahap lemak babi makhluk pendatang tak sedar diri ni.

How about this for an offer:- Shut down your Namawee-producing H1N1-incubating kilang haram or suffer the backlash of the growing silent majority.

Enticing enough?

Kenn said...

I think the "kiasu"ness in getting as many as "A"'s also affect the whole being of a child. The child may be a straight "A" student, but may not be able to stand on his own two feet out in the real world. He could be the best student, but does not even know how to cook himself a bowl of 3-minutes maggi mee. Certainly there is something that needs to be improved in the current education system.

msleepyhead said...

Thanks Maju, for the excellent discussion. Just like everyone here, the success of SSS is my wish.

Was about to let this slip, but talk about irony.

"Mengada2 betoi. Nak ajak bersatu pun nak berkira2. Lu ingat lu siapa special sgt sampai kena ada offer you can't refuse? Mana ada di tempat lain kaum minority boleh demand sekolah sendiri? US ada sekolah Mexicans ka? UK got sekolah Pakistan meh? Germany got sekolah Arab or not? Tengoklah tahap lemak babi makhluk pendatang tak sedar diri ni"

suppose 'lu' here refers to the Chinese Malaysians, what with Namewee's name also making a 'special' appearance. In the same spirit of a free for all banter shown by Pala...

pasal dia orang tak 'special' la baru sampai berdegil-degil nak juga sek. vernakular. yang 'special' tak yah risaulah kan Perlembagaan dah ada peruntukan. You've said it yourself all those countries do not cater to the minorities, and if you've given it a wee bit more thought than you'd know those are first world countries where the majority culture is the established (superior?) one. But in our case then Malaysia also 'special' sikit because as you know, well the majority here is not like the majority in US, UK or Germany. IMHO, money talks. If the language gives access to economic improvement of the majority, it's not much of a choice for Mexicans not to learn US English.

(to be continued)

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

Your latest comment is noted. May I respectfully suggest that we don't get distracted by those who choose to say things in their own style. Let's think of other ways of how to get Malaysians united as a Bangsa Malaysia.

Kenn above also has a point - too much emphasis on academic performance of children doesn't provide an all-round and wholesome Malaysian man or woman. That again is the sort of things that the SSS-proposed Study Team should be looking into.

Really, they must be looking into all aspects of the education system, the weaknesses of both the SKs and the SJKs and come up with a non-partisan and thorough report and recommendations. The Government, after the Study, still has the option of accepting or rejecting parts or all of the recommendations, which hopefully would not happen. So, really, there's no excuse for the Government not to agree to carry out and do the Study - perhaps after the PM has seen the crystallising of his 1Malaysia concept.

Some of your other points have been covered in comments by others preceding this one. But I agree with you on the use of the TV for teaching. But it should be in the SSS-proposed language. I also agree with you that implementation is still lacking. For example, the "rationale" for ending PPSMI is no rationale. If the problem was a lack of experienced teachers, then have a specialist training programme like they did for the Language Institute in Lembah Pantai. While we want BM respected as the Official Language and as the medium of instruction in schools, we must allow children to learn Maths and Science in a language that new developments in science in technology are often announced and propagated - the English language.

We must let the children be so familiar with thinking and responding in that language that it becomes automatic for them in grasping and understanding whatever new ideas that are put out, without having to waste any time to think a little and translate them from BM - if they are taught in that language - into English and understand those science and technology ideas. It would also help those who advance in that field and find themselves at international conferences and seminars, able to communicate without any hiccups.

We must have a large pool of Malaysians having a good knowledge in Science and Mathematics in order to have speedy advancement in science and technology. We can't go on hitching rides on other people's rockets to outer space; we need to build them ourselves. We've sent satellites to outer space (Astro etc) but on rockets built by others. There's a lot riding on such rocket or similar technology. It's related to precision instruments, manufacturing of turbines, enriching of uranium or whatever for the production of nuclear energy, and the like.

Malaysia is now planning the use of nuclear power; surely we can't be depending on the French or other equipment and technology supplier forever after the nuclear power plant installation?

Our school children must be allowed the benefits of PPSMI (which is not at all contradictory to the SSS concept) so that there will be enough Malaysians with knowledge and interest in Science and Technology not only to provide the skilled labour force but also to participate in management and entrepreneurship in that field.

I also agree with you that at the community level, the adults are generally too fragmented to be interested in SSS but there is definitely more than the bunch of us here. You see, very many are in the "silent majority" who, by definition, don't speak up. I'm convinced there's a silent majority and I support the proposal for a referendum where they would be asked and campaigned to come out and state their preference. That referendum will take time to happen but we are not in a rush, are we?

Nice talking to you again by courtesy of KijangMas here. More to come.

Maju.

NJ said...

Salam Sejahtera Tuan KijangMas Perkasa & sidang DN sekelian,

mssleepyhead,

Just like to touch a bit on the nowadays famous phrase "Money talks" you've mentioned above.

Kinda hard, in fact very hard to deny that phrase "Money talks" nowadays. It seems everything is about money. Maybe once in a while we should pause, take a deep breath and really ponder about this and ask, "What would happen if money does really TALKS"? Can you imagine what would happen? Money buys everything, I mean, EVERYTHING!

Just like what Kenn said above. Getting "A"'s talks. Everything is about getting "A"s in our education system.

I think, we should start to move away from this "illusion".

Maybe we like to ponder on this

"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"

NJ

Pala Otak Hang said...

"pasal dia orang tak 'special' la baru sampai berdegil-degil nak juga sek. vernakular"

What a retard counter-argument. Dey, kalau lu tak mengada-ngada perasan special sangat then don't lah ask for "an offer they can't refuse to tip over to become a national school". Aparaa..! We don't see the Ibans, Kadazans, Kelabits, Bidayuh, Jawa, Melanaus, Muruts asking for any offer do we? So why should we treat you differently? In matters regarding national interest there's no two way about it; either you're a Malaysian or you're a pendatang. Mana boleh jadi ini macam: "Oh I'm Malaysian BUT ah, I want a different school for my people and we're not learning in the Malay lorr. You want us to join National schools then give us good offer lorr"

Poodachait! Itu pasal lah aku cakap puak-puak korang ni mengada-ngada; di beri betis nak peha, di beri kerakyatan Malaysia nak Chinatown, SJKCs, tax forms in Mandarin, trilingual road signs, turned-down azan, rumah urut, open-selling of beer, Allah in Bibles. Menyampah betoi aku, sekali aku tampor kang terpelanting balik tongsan.

"IMHO, money talks. If the language gives access to economic improvement of the majority, it's not much of a choice for Mexicans not to learn US English"

Lo and behold! You have just exposed your primary goal of your existence. It's not that I have anything against wealth accumulation, tapi berkira-kira lah sikit di mana lu nak berkira tu dol. So you're saying that speaking in the National Language cannot get you rich, so you don't want to use it ah? How much you want ah? 1 Ringgit per word? Paid in Renminbi?

As of June 2009, China is the second largest trade partner of the US with total trade worth over USD160 billion. So going by your logic, surely Uncle Sam would have thought that it would be an added advantage for them if they'd be nicer to the 4 million Chinese Americans (who form 22% of Asian American population) by allowing American SJKCs to mushroom everywhere. Tapi tarak pun SJKC kat sana! Apa pasai?

Because national interests go beyond dollars and cents!

Get that into your thick Rich-Dad Poor-Dad skull.

msleepyhead said...

@Maju,
Thanks again for your detailed comment and response. The SSS is definitely a good start in the right direction and from there, on to other equally important issues. I have no issue with learning Science and Maths in Bahasa during my time, and on a personal level, feel that it will be easier for students to learn at school. The only problem that arises is during the change at university, and this affects both national and vernacular school students. I have no problem with either language as long as they stick to one decision.

It is a nice feeling to hear about your concerns and future developments of our country. As to your last paragraph on the silent majority, this is precisely the reason why I'm bringing out 'possible' opposing reasons/excuses by the vernacular school people. Let me state again, I'm no supporter/defender of one, but hope that we can counter shall the SSS shift into a higher gear. Alas, that's misconstrued by Pala.

@NJ, I fully agree on the 'money talks' that you (and Kenn) stated is an illusion. I've commented previously about the social and cultural preferences and needs of different people. In Sarawak, many of them are still happily living in longhouses. And there's nothing wrong with that. The 'money talks' phrase in my earlier comment to Pala was in the context of minority immigrants in foreign countries, that they have to learn the language of their host countries for economic purposes, to integrate and move up in that particular society. They don't have a choice.

msleepyhead said...

@Pala, I will take your 'passionate' comment as your passionate feelings for the country. I was just talking your speak, so to speak. I fully agree with you in matters regarding national interest there's no two ways about it. I wasn't aware about the tax forms in Mandarin, if it were true, then that's crossed the line too together with trilingual road signs. But Allah in Bibles and open selling of beer, that's altogether a different issue lah brader!

We're all in the same team here, so I'm taking that as a spirited debate and that you're just as concerned as Maju, NJ and the rest but express yourself in a livelier way.

If we look back at the emergence of vernacular schools then we can understand the need for it back then, for the immigrant society working for the British in a Malay land. The only proper education system at that time was in English and perhaps, just perhaps, they still send their kids back to China for tertiary education. But that was back then, come Merdeka, somehow the Alliance allowed their perpetuation, maybe, again maybe due to their already established system or that the government understood their place in providing education for Malaysians (albeit in a different language) as I would assume, as a young country there are various other things to spread the allocations, new schools in rural areas, development, etc.

But the prolongation of this different system today, I would blame on the politicians, from Tunku AR to TunM to the current guys for letting it go on. I guess that's where we come in with the SSS.

I don't think you're reading me right, hence the response. And I don't speak for 'them' lah. Anyway, here goes,

'an offer they can't refuse' does not mean monetary or even some kind of compensation, 'an offer' is a neutral stance depending on how you use it. 'An offer' could be something that holds them by the balls - nationalize or don't receive government funding. I believe that was the case back then, they were only partially government supported, and maybe only the prominent ones, but as you know to get a few votes, jambatan kita kasi, kalau tak ada jambatan kita bina sungai, that kinda thing. And it went on, and these guys got bolder by the day. We want to take the path of least resistance, not having them take make a hooha out of it and turn it into a political issue. That's the reason for engaging the vernacular school guys, understanding what will make them tip over. If you want to take it over by force, what's the point of our discussion here, just bring the FRU boys and water cannon trucks.

msleepyhead said...

(@pala continued)

'money talks' I already explained above in reply to NJ. But to give more example in the context of job opportunities, a lot of our graduates work for foreign MNCs, English is still the operating language, and inside these places you'll see that even amongst the vernacular schooled guys, the ones with the better English you usually go places. But then the MNCs didn't hire them for their English, as long as they have a decent level for communication and got the job done, that's good enough, cheaply if I may add. There are plenty of good English speakers where they come from. I've no problem whatsoever with the National Language, I've been schooled all the way in the National Language, even in Science and Maths, and that basic understanding even in BM back then, was big enough of a stepping stone for me.

As for your last paragraph, the Chinese Americans, like other immigrants, most likely went to America to pursue the 'American Dream', to learn English, watch baseball, drink beer, haha..in other words to become American. Again in your speak, tarak SJKC kat sana pasai sekolah kat Amerika dah best, pasai apa diaorang nak buat sekolah sendiri kalau dah ada sistem sekolah yang stabil dan terkenai mutunya. pasai diaorang nak masuk MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Princeton dan lain-lain. kalau kat sini, macam dah habaq kat atas, dulu tak ada sistem sekolah kebangsaan sebelum merdeka. SJKC yang dah ada skrang, bukannya baru tumbuh semalam, ini saki-baki dari sebelum merdeka, dan orang politik yang biarkan sampai hari ni, sampai bina lagi yang baru dan nak tambah kasi duit lagi demi janji pilihanraya.

I hope this is the last time I have to write like this, though it's fun it's deviating from other real concerns for the SSS.

And to quote the first sentence of the notice for the comments by KM :

This is a non-partisan forum for all Malaysians to share opinions and discuss issues in a civil, intellectual setting.

Thanks to KM for making this happen, lively debate and all.

msleepyhead said...

Sorry for the multiple postings.

To extend on the 'money talks' phrase which was misconstrued.

From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca

Malay - Indonesian
In the 14th century, during the Malacca Sultanate, Malay was used as a lingua franca in the Malay archipelago, by the locals as much as by the traders and artisans that stopped at Malacca via the Straits of Malacca.
Nowadays, Malay is used mostly in Malaysia (officially called Bahasa Malaysia) and Brunei, and to a lesser extent in Singapore.
However, Indonesian, a standardized variety of Malay, serves as a lingua franca throughout Indonesia and East Timor. While Indonesia counts several hundred different languages, Indonesian, the official language of Indonesia, is their vehicular language.

That is what I meant - Malacca was once a thriving, bustling, centre of knowledge and all that. Even foreign visitors would learn the language as it gets you access to what was being offered. The language that drives the economy and forwards society.

Pala Otak Hang said...

I understand your point on the lingua franca being the driver of economy. The lingua franca of today is English, by the next two-three decades or so could probably be something else, but those are of secondary importance to the National Language lah. The French don't have English vernacular schools despite the geographical proximity and trade with the UK, and the Americans don't have Chinese vernacular schools despite relying heavily on trade relations with the Chinese and having substantial population of ethnic Chinese citizens, apa pasai? Bukan sebab depa dah baguih dah ada MIT (awat, kalau takdak MIT baru depa nak buat SJKC ka? SJKC ni baguih sangat ka sampai boleh membaguihkan sistem pendidikan yang tak baguih?), tapi sebab bahasa Inggeris adalah bahasa majoriti, bahasa penyatuan segala suku kaum puak kat sana tu. Walaupun bahasa Mandarin itu penting untuk mereka dalam hal perdagangan dan hubungan antarabangsa, tapi tak ada sebab sampai mereka nak wujudkan aliran persekolahan menggunakan bahasa Mandarin.

"As for your last paragraph, the Chinese Americans, like other immigrants, most likely went to America to pursue the 'American Dream', to learn English, watch baseball, drink beer, haha..in other words to become American"

Yes, they chose to assimilate, to blend in with the Tuan Tanahs. Can we say the same of the SJK-proponents?

"an offer they can't refuse' does not mean monetary or even some kind of compensation"

Nobody is suggesting so. What made you think that I'm generous enough to do so? I say no offer - no negotiation at all! Remember TunM and his Sekolah Wawasan? Siapa yang tak mau? Boleh negotiate ka dgn org macam tu? Mana ada "path of least resistance, not having them take make a hooha out of it and turn it into a political issue" dengan puak-puak macam depa? And you seem to agree with me, what with your threatening-sounding "offer" of "nationalize or don't receive government funding". Now you're talking, bro!

And finally,

"But Allah in Bibles and open selling of beer, that's altogether a different issue lah brader!"

Aik, apa pasai isu lain pulak? Itu isu bahasa dan pendidikan juga. Kalau depa pi belajaq Bahasa Melayu di Sekolah Kebangsaan, depa akan tau "Allah" is not the correct translation of "God" or "Lord". Aku nak cakap panjang lebaq pasai bab ni tak payah dah kot, pasai Tuan KM dah cerita jelas habis kat sini

Semerah Padi said...

I often hear this:-

"Why people go to SJK(C) or (T)? Because SK is not good enough."

The above is debatable, but I am not going to debate on it here.

Let's equate "SK is not good enough to a scenario where the roof of a house is leaking.

What do we do?

Those with the sense of belonging to the house will work together to fix the leaks.

What you can say about those who were born inside the leaking house, but now abandon it to seek shelter under different (other) house? That other house does not have the same rules. For one thing, the language is different and foreign to that of the "good old house".

I would say, perfectly OKAY when you shall never come back to the "good old house again!" The door is shut! Get lost forever from here!

That is not too bad, isn't? People are free to choose the pasture which seems greener to them.

But what about those, who were born in the same "good old house" which is now leaking, but looking at the other, different house? They dont contribute in fixing the leaks, what worse, they are spewing venom saying that the other house is better because it does not leak! They went on to the extend of "importing/practising" the foreign rules of the other house in this very own "good old house"! Can you call them as the warnanegara of the "good old house" even if they claimed that they were born here and wave the "good old house" myKad? And, what about this, as well?

When Ahmad Ismail or Awang Selamat labelled you as "Kaum Pendatang", why not just pause and ponder for a while and ask yourself:- "Why did they label me such that?"

"Ku Titiskan Darahku di Bendera Tanah Air Yang Tercinta Ini"

Semerah Padi

msleepyhead said...

@Pala,

Nice to see we're tuning into each other's wavelength.

I get what you're saying - that right now, today in Malaysia, the other races should play their part and assimilate.

But we have to look at it from a historical perspective, the 19th century immigrants did not come to work for the Malays but the British, when they arrived, the Malays were also colonized by the British, the Tuan at that time. I think it's safe for us to assume that in terms of sociopolitical status, the immigrants and locals were of no different standing under British rule, except the Malay royal family perhaps. So unlike America today, there is no true majority or dominant culture at that time (if any it was the Brits and Malay, Indian, Chinese all wanted to be like them).

America is after all a land of immigrants who also brought their own culture initially - Irish, Italians, Germans, etc who lived in isolation and modeled their new towns in America after their European kampungs. Of course over time (~200 years), this was shed and it became the America we know today.

However it was different with the Peranakans, who came at a time when Malay was indeed the dominant culture, and they did assimilate - language, food, clothing, etc.

I'm all the way with you and the rest on SSS for a united future, hence the discussion. Our disagreement seems to lie on how to get them to nationalize, if i understand you correctly, you are taking the hard stance of cutting out the cancer directly, whereby I'm suggesting chemo or radiation, to slowly dissolve them. ;)

Gonna end here and wish everyone a Selamat Hari Raya, Maaf Zahir dan Batin.

Anonymous said...

Dear sir,
I have a question to ask, its been bothering me ever since. What can we really understand when some individuals lauded the idea of menubuhkan negara Islam? Occasionally some friends raised that question and I have difficulty to answer and I am bit scared to go into the issue.

Dreamcatcher

NJ said...

Tuan KijangMas Perkasa dan sidang DN sekelian,

Ingin mengambil kesempatan ini untuk ucap selamat menyambut Aidil Fitri. Ampun dan maaf atas segala salah & silap, terkasar bahasa, tersurat & tersirat.

Ingin panjangkan juga ucapan selamat bercuti kepada warga negara Malaysia, kita sama-sama menghayati keharmonian ini semoganya kekal sepanjang masa.

Berjuanglah DEMI NEGARA!

Salam Sejahtera.

"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"

NJ

Anonymous said...

Someone mentioned,
"What can we really understand when some individuals lauded the idea of menubuhkan negara Islam? Occasionally some friends raised"

Funny, I was just thinking about the same topic. In my opinion, Malaysia should just forget about being an "Islamic" country. Malaysia is not Islamic at all. It is very secular. Inspite of the "Islamic" propaganda by certain quarters, Malaysia, in reality is one of the most liberal countries in SEA. I say "liberal" because despite the Islamic tag, some Muslim Malaysians are believers of free sex (where unmarried couple can stay together in close proximity and do sexual things together without restrain nor conscience, worst case if it involves married men/women), sodomy, alcohol consumption, corruption, abuse of power etc...The best part is: the highly respected Tok Guru condones some of these immoral acts.

Islamic? in what sense then, in what way? For beer drinking, stealing, raping whatever ??? The way of life? a lot of questions but no answers.

But rest assured also that there are some people in the high echelons of M'sian society (the VIPs, the VVIPs, the Royalty etc) who will be able to slip through the system if it is implemented, in other words only ordinary laymen will be caught (like Kartika for example.....).

So much for being "Islamic". Let's not be hypocrites, shall we.

No offense, please. Hari Raya's coming.

Salam Aidilfitri To All.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

Eloklah tu hujah kamu..

Go to India and China and repeat what you have said in here.

Kalau sejarah kaum keturunan dan Negara ibunda sendiri pun tak terima, jangan duk memandai main tibai sejarah orang lain kat sini.

Keep on dreaming..

Tongkang

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

"Malaysian Chinese will over time be Chinese Malaysian soon, and hopefully not too long after that just Malaysian."

I'm afraid you dropped a bombshell there which I had not commented before. It may be semantics but, after 51 years, this is what makes a few commentators come out very strongly against.

Malaysians must be Malaysians. There's no half-way houses. Respecting the Constitution and all laws that emanate from it is a minimum requirement of all Malaysians. It is in fact the very basic requirement of all citizens of any country. All those with Malaysian citizenship are expected to be Malaysian the moment they get their citizenship papers. "Soon" and "not too long after that" are not acceptable. This I think is a reasonable expectation.

That "the 'Malay identity' is constantly projected to the forefront" and "we are also constantly reminded by others here that this is Tanah Melayu" I think is no excuse. Loyalty is respecting and living by the Constitution of the country, accepting whatever the conditions in the country may be, warts and all.

Nowhere on earth can we find a place to live where everything is to our liking and no Malaysian can say, "Give me what I want first, then I'll give what the country wants". This, in fact, is precisely what one fellow said in one blog somewhere. This kind of attitude is simply not tolerable. Citizenship must be treated seriously, given utmost respect. Loyalty is not an item of merchandise. It is not tradeable. It is not bargainable. It is not negotiable.

You said, "Assimilation will be hard here for the simple reason of religion". Let us be clear here - the SSS peole are not talking about assimilation i.e the Thai, Indonesian or Filipino way. KijangMas himself has said that; he merely stated the Thai, Indonesian and Filipino ways as examples of other methods of bringing people together. The SSS promoters are talking about integration. It's about being Malaysian with the basic feature of accepting and living by the Constitution, a sense of belonging and togetherness as citizens of the country.

Acceptance of the Constitution means recognising the established history of the country (not Wikipedia or newly concocted "Chin-Peng-is-a-nationalist" version(s) and accepting the Social Contract all of which were reflected in the august document. Recognising the established history of the country means accepting the Malay ways, though not the religion of the Malays. It also means accepting and not getting irrititated by the often repeated fact that this was "Persekutuan Tanah Melayu" later changed to "Malaya" and "Malaysia" but Malays are the majority. Nobody talks about non-Malays having to adopt Malay names but non-Malay officials at formal functions do, for example, need to wear the songkok.

The Chinese in Mainland China were ruled by the Manchus, foreign invaders, for a few hundred years until the 20th Century. They, for the most part, accepted the Manchu ways imposed on them in their own land. Some left but it was due to unbearable living conditions, unending social upheaval and foreign incursions, including the British forcing opium on them in the 19th Century. In Malaya and now Malaysia the Chinese have got a lot in terms of economic and educational advancement compared to the others. They should be thankful and be proud of being Malaysians.

KijangMas and others have spoken about the Malaysianness (or even the Kelantaneseness) of the non-Malays in Kelantan. Though not from Kelantan, I've met a number of them; in fact one is married to a very close Malay friend of mine. By golly - as the Filipinos are wont to say - their feeling of togetherness as fellow Malaysians is remarkable. Even the electrician who I patronise willingly fixes my electrical problems at odd hours of the day (and night) and charges at the same rate. His nephew who came to KL to work with him found a culture shock and went back to work in KB. I'm so damned proud of the Kelantanese non-Malays as fellow Malaysians.

Selamat Hari Raya to you, too. I'll be back.

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

@Tongkang,

Kalau berkongsi pendapat dan pembacaan pun dikira menibai negara orang lain, apa gunanya forum ini.

Kalau salah, tolong tunjukkan. Janganlah beri pendapat saja.

Ish, masih nak India China lagi.

Anonymous said...

i have post this at JMD blog ... looking for cyber-knight ...

now asking DN knights for help ...

unrelated story

last night i was in the mood of some readings and stumble upon Indonesia’s website rambling on how do we meng’klaim’kan alot of their rights … it was not a pretty sight … luckily i was able to hold back any emotions after reading all those ‘caci-maki’ …. well maybe after all the hoo-haa of the politics in Malaysia

suddenly i can see a common sight between the so called Fanatik Anak Merdeka Indonesia and Fanatik PR …. they all need to clear their heads and attend anger management classes …..

some even questioning our MERDEKA validity, how we achieve it and they even raised on what PR have been ‘canang2′kan …

i was proud of some of the ‘komentar’ which clearly shown the Patriotism for Malaysia and also solute them for giving a well explanation and also well behave as expected from a cool Malaysian … but still, its hard to as ‘ketam mengajar anaknya berjalan lurus’

it is sad because a lot of our Malaysian website are hacked by these sad sad creatures ….

it is sad because it happened on 31 August …

it is also sad as all the allegations are baseless and we did not put enough effort to clear all of that … from i gather, there is a number of issues

a) ambalat block (we still under negotiation but still ….)
b) pendet (although its not our fault, still ….)
c) manohara (this is private between husband and wife but still)
d) somebody stupid insult Indonesia Raya national song (if true the culprit from M’sia, then he is a traitor instead of a patriot)
e) so called insult to the TKI (tenaga kerja Ind’sia) (but failed to see the impact of PATI)
f) batik (did they not see its only the name is the same?)
g) renog ????

how i wish that at point of time (31 August) where they are doing cyber attacks to Malaysians, we, no matter BN or PR, shall stand together and defend Malaysia by answering all the allegations …. of course minus all the name calling and others uncalled act …

but being ‘tak-apa’ Malaysian, we choose to ignore … keep it under the rug …

but still after reading all those blogs, i felt pain in my chest …..

bukan mau cari gaduh, tapi we need to discuss and educate them ….

i would appreciate if JMD could use your skill in fact collecting and wonderful narrative to publish a blog at the below link ….. or other bloggers

what we need is not cyber-trooper, but cyber-knight to defend Malaysia ….

http://public.kompasiana.com/2009/08/26/kejahatan-malaysia-terhadap-indonesia-paling-lengkap-di-seluruh-dunia/

i think that Kompasiana is a place ppl can publish blogs ….

bleached_4ever

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

You said, “It is as simple as saying if you can have your exclusive school why can't we?” I’m afraid you are going off-tangent here again. The MRSMs, UITM etc have been explained time and again, especially here at Demi Negara. They were to help the Malays catch up from being left far behind educationally since British colonial times. The British built more schools in the towns, very few, and only at primary level in the kampongs.

Surely you don’t grudge the Malays trying to catch up? Surely you don’t blame the Government for dispensing that policy? It’s provided under the Malay Special Position. It’s in exchange for non-Malay citizenship right that the Malays agreed to. Harping on it makes people use the term “being unreasonable”.

When you keep bringing such things up, it shows you are not accepting the Social Contract and the Constitution which embodies that Social Contract. It makes a few come out with pretty strong comments. You can’t blame them when they do.

On the matter of “historical perspective, the 19th century immigrants did not come to work for the Malays but the British, when they arrived, the Malays were also colonized by the British, the Tuan at that time.” I don’t know what “history” you are going by. This is the problem of non-Malays not having an adequate knowledge of Malayan history or of the established facts of the history of this country. The Chinese first came to Perak in the middle of the 19th Century - even before British Intervention and British rule in the Malay states.

It was Long Jaafar, the one credited to have found tin (“pasir hitam”) and opened up five taditional Malay mines in Larut in 1848, who started bringing in Chinese into Perak. He brought in 20 Chinese to work his mines. Over the years (there were 30 mines by 1873), more Chinese were brought in. “Manteri Laroot”, Ngah Ibrahim, brought Chinese from Penang to work and modernize his tin mines. A descendent of Long Jaafar, he wanted to modernise the tin mines he inherited and developed himself. This was before the British set foot in Perak. He wanted more revenue and opened up more mines, asking Chinese to run them. He even provided capital to a few Chinese to go into mining. Talk about “did not come to work for the Malays”! Talking about give and take, and giving opportunities to others, it must be two way.

Maju.

(Continued in Part 2)

Anonymous said...

Part 2

msleepyhead,

But the Chinese brought secret societies, thugs and gangsters to manage their operations in Larut (now Kamunting, the ISA detention centre place). The Hai Sans and the Ghee Hins fought for control of the tin mines. They terrorized the area such that in the end even the Malay tin mines (no less than 350 traditional ones by 1885) disappeared. Talk about business wizardry and entrepreneurship skills! It was thuggery and gangsterism in that instance and I’m not sure for how long.

Then in 1872 the Hai San Kapitan Cina and 44 of his thugs and gangsters signed a petition to the British Resident in Penang to help them regain their mines lost to the rival Ghee Hin gang in Larut. The British came. It led to British intervention in Perak and British colonial rule in Malaya. Talk about loyalty in this country!

I must say it’s skewed to say that “in terms of sociopolitical status, the immigrants and locals were of no different standing under British rule.” The Malays dared to plunge the keris into British Resident JWW Birch along the banks of the Perak river. And the British adopted the word “amok” into their language to denote the Malay nature – kind but mengamok (running for blood) if exploited. The word does exist in the Oxford English dictionary.

And it’s rather provocative to say, “So unlike America today, there is no true majority or dominant culture at that time (if any it was the Brits and Malay, Indian, Chinese all wanted to be like them).”

In this hari baik, bulan baik, let me suggest that you read well-researched books written by acknowledged academicians who are experts in the field of history – not Wikipedia as almost anybody can edit and counter-edit there. On the coming and the role of the Chinese in Perak pre-British rule – mostly a history of secret societies, thugs and gangsters – read “Sejarah Kesultanan Negeri Perak” by (then) Associate Professor M.A. Fawzi Basri, published by Yayasan Perak, 1986.

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

@Maju

Aw man, have I got myself into trouble again?

The 'Malaysian Chinese' and 'Chinese Malaysian' comment was in response to an earlier comment by koolmokcikZ. I was referring specifically to this group of people who still label themselves with a prepend of which Malaysian they are, and proposed or rather offer possible explanations for why this is so. Should have added the @koolmokcikZ on that one.

I'm Malaysian all the way, but if my comments appear that I condone isolated groups of Malaysians with their distinct cultural and national identity, I apologize for my still lacking writing skills.

I fully agree with you on every point. The buck stops here. Some of my points came about after reading this: http://tinyurl.com/nkn9t7 , it points out why there was assimilation for the earlier group of immigrants, ie Peranakan, but the later wave of immigrants stuck to their identity more.

I'm all for a one Malaysia in terms of not only identity and nationality but also psyche.

The SSS even at this stage, has already done the right thing by getting people talking about national identity through schooling.

I hope that explains my earlier comments and will send Tuan KM my email so that we can discuss further via email as some of it seems to take up space and may deviate from the forum. Same goes out to the other like minded ones here.

msleepyhead said...

@Maju,

Thank you for your patience, it was not my intention to test you on Ramadan. ;) Thanks for pointing out my inaccurate 'facts' and flaws in the argument. You are certainly more well read than me, probably that's what Tongkang meant, not understanding our local history but talk about America and such. I deserved that. I shall read up on the history of immigrants in our country before commenting anymore. My mouth's zipped on that one for the mean time. My sincere apologies to not only Maju, but also everyone for my ignorance.

I must admit that my knowledge on Sejarah Malaysia is just that, up to SPM level and maybe some reading here and there on wiki and so on. If I could have been so ignorant, I would think it's a good representation of the masses of non-Malays out there. The laymen.

As for Malay Special Position and Social Contract, it was never questioned by me. 'We' was used as a third person perspective, not in the sense of 'me and my people'. I was trying to highlight that in simplistic thinking, people will not understand why on this day, 52 years after the British left, some of the Malay students are still channeled away from sekolah kebangsaan to these institutions. I think the status quo has been "ok, you can have yours and we would like to keep ours too."

Pardon my ignorance, but I think vernacular schools are also in the post merdeka negotiations by the powers that be then. It is what I meant in this sense, that if we have decided vernacular schools have no more role to play and does not fit in Malaysia today, because they are promoting a foreign culture and isolate students from each other that leads to disunity and a divisive nation in the end.

I do not begrudge the Malays for catching up through education, the government has every right to do it. However, their existence (MRSM, UITM) alongside national schools today, half a century later after independence boggles the mind.

I sincerely hope to get in touch and learn more from you. If you wouldn't mind, please email me. I've signed in with the blogger profile and email is there.

Tommy Yewfigure said...

Hi Km (Bosz) & friends, (yes u Tongkang included…heheh)

May I take this opportunity to wish all of you a happy & safe;

‘Selamat Hari Raya Aidilfitri’

I dedicate Sudirman;- ‘Dari jauh ku pohon maaf’ to all of u.

Salam,
Unker Tommy

P/S – We’ll lay down our RPG for now& celebrate this joyous occasion together.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

To me, as long as you ask sincere questions and give a few honest opinions along the way, I'm prepared to go on explaining and responding. I consider it as my little contribution to bring about understanding, goodwill and harmony in this country of ours.

You sound like a sincere and honest fellow Malaysian and I'm proud of that. And your interest to know is a healthy one.

I would rather we continue to discuss in this Demi Negara forum. I'm quite sure KijangMas does not mind as it is for the purpose of greater understanding and goodwill. This way, others may also benefit from the discourse.

There's no need to worry about the harsh opinions or statements of others. You already know those people are passionate about the issues they are vocal about. Just continue writing, with a little consciousness that they would be reading what we say. When you come to a stage of no worry for that, it suggests that you have reached the mainstream Malaysiana view. Let's hope for that and I look forward to it.

Of course we can have dissenting views. But on respect for the Constitution, on sensitive issues covered by the Sedition Act, no dissenting views are allowed, even by the Malays. For example, while non-Malays can't question the Special Position of the Malays under Article 153, Malays also can't question the right of non-Malays and their descendants to citizenship in this country. I think that's fair.

See you around.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

Regarding your latest comment –

The existence of MRSM, UITM etc “half a century after independence” (they were started only in the 1970s) should not “boggle the mind”. Not if you consider that it does take a long time to get a reasonable number of Malays qualify in the various fields of activity in the country. Tun Dr Mahathir said there were only five Malay doctors after Merdeka and in the late 1960s there were only two Malay cardio surgeons in the whole country.

Imagine the various fields of specialization in the medical, engineering and legal professions and the number of non-Malays having qualified and in practice since Merdeka. At Merdeka time, many Malays, especially in the kampongs, didn’t even know what an engineer, an architect, a surveyor etc was, let alone having “the wish” to study subjects that could lead them into becoming one. The Chinese, who were and still are mainly in the towns, have been exposed to modern ideas and development, and would have come across a relative, a friend or a practitioner in one or more of those fields. Inspiration (the wanting to become, to have) comes from knowledge, from experience, from exposure. (One Professor at Cambridge University says that people or countries are poor not because they are lazy or stupid but because of other reasons - more on this another time).

Yet Malays are about 60% of the population. It takes a long time to even be just at par with the non-Malays in terms of numbers qualified in those fields. And why must it be “just at par”? It’s not right that Malays, who form the majority of the population, just fill up the labour lines in the factories, or the clerical desks in the offices, is it? Let there be a fair representation of Malays in all spheres of activity in this country. Then everybody should feel comfortable, especially when you consider the Malays have a “Special Position” under the Constitution.

It should also not boggle the mind if you accept the Special Position of the Malays, a subject which I’m afraid nobody can question. It was in exchange for the citizenship right of the non-Malays which also nobody can question. So, if we all accept these facts, there should be less problems among us, less ill feelings, greater goodwill, better chances of a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

The Chinese have held economic power for so long and have been prominent economically even during British colonial times. They have even exceeded the target of wealth ownership envisaged for them in 1970. The Malays were targeted to have 30% corporate wealth within one generation but now have only 18%.

Nobody should blame the Malays for being slow because when they plan the “target”, nobody knew whether the target was realistic or not. Nobody could know because nobody had ever been there before. The Malays had been in business in a significant way only since the 1970s, whereas the Chinese had been at it since time immemorial. Business resilience and wealth retention is something new to the Malays – even the Chinese say that wealth retention is at the maximum of three generations, and there are a huge number of Chinese in business.

The Asian Economic Crisis of the 1980s took away a part of the Malay corporate wealth. But then, even huge American companies also fail in the most recent economic debacle there.

So, the non-Malays should not criticize the Malays for slow economic progress. Corruption is a different issue. If people want to criticize the authorities for rampant corruption existing in the country, it’s a separate matter.

Cheers and Selamat Hari Raya.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

Dengan Ucapan;

SELAMAT HARI RAYA AIDIL FITRI
MOHON AMPUN DAN MAAF..

Tongkang

Anonymous said...

Ku mohon maaf zahir dan batin.

Selamat Hari Raya Aidil Fitri ...

Anonymous said...

Dear Maju

The Malays were targeted to have 30% corporate wealth within one generation but now have only 18%.

This is because the Malays who were allocated the 30% share on IPO have sold their shares to cash out. Even the PM has admitted this. RM54billion was given to them and only RM2billion remains. The remaining RM52billion is in someone's pocket.

I agree with the education thing under the Constitution because I believe that Education IS the way to go. Not handouts which need to be topped up.

All this fear about the non-Malays questioning the rights of the Malays is just put out their by UMNO and the BN who want to maintain control over the Malay themselves.

I can sing Negara Ku, I can quote the Rukunegara. I accept the status quo. What I don't accept is people demonising others for their own ends. Even our dear KM is guity of this else he would not be lumping all the blame on the whole 27% others. Do remember that there are both just and unjust humans on both sides of the fence.

Selamat Hari Raya Aidilfitri to all of you.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 21 Sep @ 9.20 am,

Regarding Malays who sold IPO shares, you need to produce verifiable figures and sources before what you said can be substantially believed.

There were the following categories:

- those who sold to buy other assets
- those who sold to improve their existing assets like home renovation – I know quite a few who did this
- those who sold to invest in other ventures but lost them in the process. Remember, the Asian Financial Crisis of the late 1980s took its toll. Not only Malay businesses, many Chinese businesses also fizzled out
- those who sold for enjoyment purposes or for pleasure – but are there any verifiable figures on the amount involved?

When the PM "agreed" that the Malays sold their shares, he did not explain the above, did he? But thanks to NEP, there are quite a number of Malays educated enough to know the value, for example, of added value to properties and to invest from proceeds of sale of IPO shares. Whether a sufficient number of this kind of Malays was given the opportunity to buy those shares or whether what were given to them were in big amounts or not is a different matter.

We all know the accusations against TS Rafidah, long-time Minister i/c of IPO, and Tun Dr Mahathir’s revelations of politicians and their cronies like DS Anwar Ibrahim and their family members being allotted shares. What these people use such shares for and how much of them went into money politics is a different matter and, like the rampant corruption in this country, may be discussed separately.

However, would you like to tell us your source(s) for your claim that “RM54 billion was given to them and only RM2 billion remains”, and elaborate on “The remaining RM52 billion is in someone's pocket”?

Would you also like to explain what you mean by “handouts”? Would you not consider Menteri Larut, Ngah Ibrahim, who wanted better technology and the opening up of his territory, calling the Chinese from Penang and providing them capital to start tin mines in Larut in the latter part of the 19th Century also as handouts to the Chinese? And the British during their colonial rule giving the Chinese mining leases, licences for lottery, gambling, rubber trading etc as handouts? Especially when there was no competition from the other communities.

If so, why couldn’t the Government ask those IPO companies to allocate 30% of shares to be offered to the public thru the Stock Exchange be reserved for the Malays? They were not given out free, anyway. The Malays had to pay for them like any other. They were only given the right to puchase at prices determined prior to the public listing of those companies. Once allotted, they were assured of the right to purchase. Non-Malays could buy those same shares at the same prices, by applying through the open market system but, not being allotted, were not assured of the right to purchase. And the lucky non-Malays were offered and did purchase, too. Millions of shares of each IPO.

True, quite a number of non-Malays get the impression that Malays got “free shares”. And your choice of the word “handouts” is adding to the misunderstanding. You see, this is the sort of thing that makes some Malays who are passionate about the Malaysian-ness of our people and about wanting a two-way spirit of give and take become exasperated and express themselves very strongly. If you do not wish them to say anything unpleasant, you must avoid doing so in the first place. The nature of human beings is such that one unpleasant word attracts another.

“Handouts” implying “free shares” is utterly wrong. You need to explain the word so that your opinion can be seen as without any unhealthy connotation and can be regarded as responsible.

The IPO policy may have been changed but there may be a similar one in future and we need to have the proper perspective.

I’m glad that you agree with “the education thing” (I presume SSS), and that you can sing the Negara Ku and quote the Rukunegara. Let’s all follow the Rukun.

Selamat Hari Raya to you, too.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

Yes Maju,

I presume many really are misled where handouts (FREE?)or where IPO (FREE?)are concerned!

Maybe this Anon should PONDER why Menteri Besar Khalid is now being chased by Bank Islam for such huge amount, RM66.xx million unpaid over 7years?

Tongkang

Anonymous said...

Dear Maju,

Re your question on where I got my information on the 30% NEP. Basically it was from the following blogs:

http://www.futurefastforward.com/component/content/article/2031

http://sakmongkol.blogspot.com/2009/07/if-shoes-dont-fit-you-must-discard.html

Wasn't trying to have sinister connotations so apologies if the words offended. It was not my niat to hurt anyone. I was merely making an observation from what i had read through the Internet.

Anonymous said...

Anon 22 Sep @ 3.10 pm,

The first blog you referred to also did not quote his source. He may have done so in his books which he advertised in his blog but I’m not going to buy one because I can’t even quote him here by copy-pasting 1-2 sentences – it appears to be copy-proof and, to me, that’s a sign of selfishness, even about knowledge/opinion sharing among Malaysians.

He even acknowledged the “cashing out” of shares as ordinary “business transactions”. He did not state the sources, the date and time, how long it was, the method of calculation when he said the Malay corporate wealth, perhaps during stock market boom, touched the 30% mark. Even if so, what about the Chinese having got more than the target envisaged at the start of the NEP? Isn’t the 30% “target” also merely “envisaged”? Because no one could really tell when it could be achieved?

Even if the writer thinks it has been achieved, so what is the next course of action? Scrap the NEP completely? No, no such thing. Remember, the right of the non-Malays to citizenship is forever. And, in terms of wealth, the Chinese have been dominating and controlling the economy for a long time. Citizenship was in exchange for the Malay Special Position. The 30% was only in respect of corporate wealth. The Malays have not even asked for having adequate ownership in other forms of wealth.

At another time, we can talk about what constitutes a "level playing field" and what a "fair competition" should be, minus secret societies, thugs, gangsters and all.

Again, neither he nor you have provided verifiable figures (the onus is on you as the one who brought up the subject) on the amount of IPO share sale proceeds spent on unproductive activities (which, admittedly, did occur).

He even implied money going into the wrong pockets (I’ve also asked how much of it went into money politics) but he did not hit at corruption directly. That, of course, is his prerogative, being a former Political Secretary and a part of the Establishment then. Remember also, money politics occurs not only in UMNO.

Corruption is not exclusive to only one group – see the MCA leaders' involvement in the Port Klang NFTZ case and the Selangor DAP Excos being investigated by MACC. At one time corruption was the domain of businessmen – when hardly any Malay was in business. Now it is widespread. We must not condone it, irrespective of the skin colour or the party flag the culprits carry. Damn the corrupt fellows.

Maju.

(Continued in Part 2)

Anonymous said...

Part 2

Anon 3.10 pm,

The blogger acknowledged that “in all societies, some are more equal than others” and even suggested that the Malays should realize that this is applicable to the Malay community. I agree with him on this but if anyone is disgruntled about the Special Position of the Malays, especially the need to correct economic and educational imbalance under the NEP or whatever policy it may be called, he/she must sit back and think about the citizenship they have got and the agreement between the Malay and non-Malay leaders (the Social Contract) at independence.

In this respect, even Tun Dr Mahathir has said that there can be no equality among Malaysians. Even in the US some whites may say that there is no equality among Americans because they see Obama’s health policies as favouring blacks, etc. In China where communism is supposed to provide equal rights to everybody, the communist party cadres and card carrying members have always had more rights than the proletariat. Ask your Malay friends their experience on non-regular visa applications to US or at Immigration counters in European airports, you’ll find that you might be treated by them as 1st class whereas the Malays as 2nd class citizens of Malaysia for their Muslim names. The buzzword should be give and take, my friend.

Let’s have a two-way give and take, avoid selfishness of the extreme kind, argue on the implementation not the concept of the NEP. Separate corruption from the basic principles of the NEP. And, when criticising on corruption, make it plain and celar that it is so, not make it sound as if it is a criticism of the NEP concept, which is dear to and is a sensitive issue among the majority of Malays.

I have ceased reading the second blog you referred to because he gives me the impression that he disagrees with important aspects of the NEP and I see him being referred to as a “Malay apologist”. There are a few like him but only a very few.

My sincere suggestion to you is that when you quote figures or make statements that are controversial or likely to be argued, even loudly protested against, you should quote reliable and verifiable sources. These should be Government Departments or established research organizations.

Even the “findings” of research groups can be skewed. The Asian Research Institute (?) some years ago published a “finding” that the Malays already have over 40% corporate wealth. It turned out that they included those held by government-linked companies (GLCs). They withdrew their findings and apologized when the Government pointed out it was only 18%. The Merdeka Centre was said to have links with PR Anwar Ibrahim. If so, their findings may be tailored to certain political interests. You see, quite a lot depends on the type of questions, the phrasing of the questions, the kind of interviewers, the interpretation of the answers, etc.

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

Salam Maju (and the DN community),

Thanks for taking the trouble with your detailed comment, what with the Raya holidays and all. I second your proposal to continue here with the permission of Tuan KM of course, who knows it may even invite others to chip in. In fact, I'll take your offer as a green light to continue asking questions pertinent to the cause and also for a greater understanding amongst us here.

To anon, how about taking up a moniker, it can be Makmur, since Maju is taken. It'll be easier to address one another, we're already faceless as it is. A name will help greatly with the communication.

I'll try to offer perspectives from a cultural and 'speculative' nature. Although, numbers and facts are important, the qualitative aspects of our historical legacies and roots are often overlooked, and I believe are just as important to understand why we got to where we are.

For starters, the Chinese culture and daily living itself revolves around the economy. You rightly pointed out about the exposure to the modern economy and ways of the world. But that excuse can't be used anymore, the success of AF in reaching the rural areas is testimony to that, so hopefully the catching up will be over with.

With respect to the education system, I think resources should have been concentrated nationally on a broader scale. I have no problem with the Special Position and it's purposes, but I don't see why a quality, standard education is still beyond reach to all.

Maybe SSS is a good start to that, at the primary level, if it works out then, the next step will be for a uniformed education system.

msleepyhead said...

@Maju,

Yet Malays are about 60% of the population. It takes a long time to even be just at par with the non-Malays in terms of numbers qualified in those fields. And why must it be “just at par”? It’s not right that Malays, who form the majority of the population, just fill up the labour lines in the factories, or the clerical desks in the offices, is it? Let there be a fair representation of Malays in all spheres of activity in this country. Then everybody should feel comfortable, especially when you consider the Malays have a “Special Position” under the Constitution.

Somebody has got to do the job, even in China, they are the factory of the world and you need such human production lines. Is it possible that it 'looked' that way simply because Malays do form 60% percent of the population. And cultural habits mean that Chinese dropouts or SPM school leavers don't work at factories because they'd rather sell fried or souped noodles by the roadside?

I don't think we should view menial jobs as something beneath us. Everyone has their place in society, even dishwashers and toilet cleaners can be a professional job, if the job is taken seriously with the proper gear, uniform, discipline to carry out the job ensuring a sanitized and hygienic environment.

On catching up, the average Chinese family size in Malaysia is now small - two children. Which means resources are allocated for the advancement of these two (through education mainly). As for entrepreneurs, they are usually not the top scorers, the Chinese would consider the scholarly types as booksmarts who would keep to the 'safe' route of professional occupation. I think it would be safe to assume the entrepreneurial types to be Grade 3 or worst SPM failures, those with nothing to lose, risk-takers.

So, comparing that to the Malays, education is just preparing them to become workers.

If we take the Chinese population in Malaysia to be 25%, and dwindling because of current birthrate, will you say that the gap is closed when 25% of the Malay population is living similar lifestyles to the Chinese in the most general of sense - two children, a house, two cars, etc.. (This is again strictly speculative generalization).

Another different cultural view can be seen on dropouts, although scholarly types are highly appreciated in the Chinese community, dropouts are not scorned upon. Dropouts in the Chinese community usually mean you don't get to take the scholarly route to a professional occupation which leads to an 'easy' life, hence you have 15 year old apprentice grease monkeys at workshops paying their dues by changing motorcycle oil before graduating to tearing apart the kapchai engine to service it. Sure, they don't complete school but they also don't become office despatch boys or pizza delivery guys either. And they don't depend on a government retraining scheme to get them a job.

The Malays have land. Why are agricultural skills not exploited to the hilt? If we compare farmers by race, who is the best - in terms of land management, output, cash crops etc. Same goes for fishermen and other traditional jobs.

I believe there are a lot of cultural settings that are involved and needs to be examined when it comes to success. Why are the known timber tycoons in Sarawak a Chinese despite the Ibans being there for the longest of time? Is it possible their living in the longhouse lifestyle inhibits their chasing of wealth because they live in a close community, and to want to be rich is a selfish pursuit? Do they even want material wealth to begin with - LV handbags and chauffeured around in a Rolls-Royce like their CM?

Anonymous said...

Dear Maju,

Hmmm...since the PM himself came up with the same statement as the 2 bloggers, I have to assume that there is some truth in the matter.

In any event I believe that all that the 2 and the PM, were stating is that because the Bumis who were allotted the 30% equity in the companies during the IPOs tended to sell off their shares in the open market (for whatever reason) it is a fallacy to expect the 30% equity quota to be maintained in the long term. The non-Bumis should not be penalised for this.

No one is disputing the need to allocate a certain percentage of share capital to be subscribed by Bumis. And in fact the 30% requirement was achieved at the time of the IPOs. But as I stated above, because there is no embargo on subsequently selling these shares in the open market the 30% may not be maintained.

Anon 22 Sep @ 3.10 pm

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

"But that excuse (exposure to modern economy and ways of the world) can't be used anymore, the success of AF in reaching the rural areas is testimony to that, so hopefully the catching up will be over with."

The Chinese from Penang who started tin mining in Perak at Menteri Larut Ngah Ibrahim's invitation, and with capital provided by him, in the latter half of the 19th Century must have taken more than one generation to succeed. And that was with all the help provided, including mining land made available for them. Plus the protection of secret societies, thugs and gangsters.

All throughout the nearly 150 years since then until now, Chinese secret societies, thugs and gangsters have existed to protect and promote the interests of many Chinese businessmen. You can get choice lucrative business locations by paying huge sums of "football money" to those who will "ease out" existing tenants.

Plus the fact that the Chinese can draw the expertise of Mainland Chinese who have done mining work for over 1,000 years. And the fact that, as a people, the Chinese have had a long, long tradition of doing business in Mainland China.

Considering those factors stated above, and the fact that the Chinese have been controlling the economy for a long time, you want the Malays to compete in an uneven playing field now? It looks like we are coming into the realm of reasonableness that I said earlier led some Malays to be harshly vocal about.

".. but I don't see why a quality, standard education is still beyond reach to all."

This is why the SSS Proposal calls for an in-depth study and review of the existing education system where the strengths and weaknesses of the SKs should also be studied. The SKs are far from perfect and their weaknesses have been pointed out time and again, here and there. So, let's have a proper and comprehensive study of both the SKs and the SJKs, and the independent Study Team can report and make recommendations on how best to improve the entire system or systems (there appears to be three now) and bring about a truly cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

I agree with you that cultural settings play a part. But business dominance and control of the economy, willingness to share business knowledge and skills also do. That business is a competition is acknowledged. But some thoughts ought to be given to the fact that Ngah Ibrahim not only provided mining lands but also capital (he had the right to collect taxes and had money) about 150 years ago. One wonders how many Chinese became millionaires as a consequence of Ngah Ibrahim's kindness. Reciprocity and give and take is in order even on this account.

The non-Malays must not expect the Malays to acquire business-oriented attitudes and values in one generation. The Chinese in Mainland China must have taken some 1,000 generations for that. Consider also the fact that despite 3,500 years of history since written records, over 1,000 inventions and vast manpower resources, they became an economic power only in the last decade or so. I'm afraid you have to be realistic about things. You need to have a wider perspective.

Now that you have touched on culture, I have a lot to say on the so-called "cultural impediments" of all the major races in this country - Chinese and Indians with their long history, and Malays and the "Rumpun Melayu" with their not so long history. It'll have to wait another time.

To Anon 22 Sep @ 3.10 pm,

".. because the Bumis who were allotted the 30% equity in the companies during the IPOs tended to sell off their shares in the open market (for whatever reason) it is a fallacy to expect the 30% equity quota to be maintained in the long term. The non-Bumis should not be penalised for this."

Would you explain in detail what you meant by the last sentence? I hope you remember what I said that those shares were not given out to the Malays free - they paid at the same price as the non-Malays.

You all should have watched the Al Jazeera 101 East report on Papua New Guinea 2-3 days ago. The Papuans, independent 34 years ago, have been resenting the Chinese there. There was a riot early this year in connection with that and it is said that "there is a time bomb waiting to explode any time now".

The Chinese invested in a huge US$800 million mine but migrant Chinese "tourists" bribe the Police and Immigration to
overstay and carry out small businesses. The Papuans strongly resent them even doing sundry businesses and complain that the migrants are taking away jobs that the locals can do.

The Chinese in this country should be thankful that they can do almost anything here. Let's have some thankfulness, co-operation, understanding and goodwill in the efforts at bridging the economic and education gap.

It's a question of reasonableness, don't you think? After all the explanations given above and earlier, you can't be harping on slow wealth acquisition or poor wealth retention relentlessly.

You also see Chinese having new Mercedes parked in the porches of link storey houses, even single-storey ones, don't you? I know of a 38 year old Chinese making his first million and buying one BMW 7 series and one of the largest Mercedes. He went bankrupt 1-2 years after that. Anyone has figures on the failed Chinese businesses compared to the Malay ones? Remember, the Chinese are "experts" in business.

Maju.

NJ said...

Tuan KM Perkasa & sidang DN sekelian,

Saya mengikuti dengan minat perbincangan di antara msleepyhead & Maju di ruang ini.

Sesuatu yang amat baik untuk diluahkan supaya kita semua dapat menilai sesuatu pandangan yang dilontarkan dari pelbagai sudut.

Harapan saya pada suatu hari nanti, msleepyhead dapat meyakinkan diri serta ramai orang di Malaysia ini bahawa mereka semua bukannya orang China (atau India, dsb) tapi kita semua adalah orang Malaysia. Kita semua satu Bangsa. Bangsa Malaysia yang identitinya berteraskan Melayu yang kini menjadi Melayu Raya, yakni Malaysia.

Bukan saya hendak menegakkan "Aku Melayu" tetapi, bahasa apakah yang patut orang Malaysia pertahankan, kalau tidak Bahasa Kebangsaan (yang berteraskan bahasa Melayu). Ciri-ciri kenegaraan apakah yang patut orang Malaysia banggakan kalau tidak ciri-ciri Malaysia yang juga berteraskan kepada orang Melayu serta Bumiputera yang ada dengan disulam indah dengan ciri-ciri yang baik dari kaum-kaum lain?

Ibaratkan teh tarik yang disempurnakan oleh sedikit susu dan gula. Kita akan meminta dari mamak, "TEH tarik satu!" bukannya "air tarik ataupun susu tarik ataupun gula tarik" kerana Teh tarik itu berteraskan kepada TEH walaupun TEH asli itu telahpun tersulam dengan air, susu dan gula.

Jadi, kita harap perbincangan kita akan berkisar kepada "Aku Malaysia" bukan lagi "Aku China" kerana bumi China bukannya di sini. Bukan jua "Aku Melayu Jawi" kerana "Melayu Jawi" sudah meredhakan identitinya kepada "Malaysia" dengan menyambut saudara-saudara yang berbangsa lain selain dari Melayu.

Kita mula membina negara ini dengan sesuatu yang mudah dahulu, yakni Bahasa. Apabila kita mula memahami antara satu sama lain, kita lanjutkan kepada perkara-perkara yang digariskan di dalam Rukun Negara. Seterusnya, Perlembagaan kita. Kemudian kita pergi kepada yang lebih rumit seperti hak kesama-rataan di antara kita dan sebagainya lagi. Selagi kita masih bukan orang Malaysia yang mengamalkan Rukun Negara serta menghormati Perlembagaan, mana mungkin seorang Melayu akan berdiri sama tinggi dengan seorang China? Selagi itu kita tidak akan bersatu kerana masing-masing sememangnya berbeza.

"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"

NJ

msleepyhead said...

msleepy reporting:

http://tinyurl.com/ya2bcl7

Having the ear of the Prime Minister is a major boon for the Makkal Sakti Party which has asked Najib to act on three main areas of concern for the Indians.

These are turning all 543 Tamil schools into fully-aided schools, 10 per cent Indian recruitment in the civil service and at all levels and socio-economic help to uplift the Indian urban poor.

Thanenthiran said Najib told them to give him two years to act on these issues. “You all watch what I do,” Najib told them, according to Thanenthiran.


Does the PM know about SSS?

Anonymous said...

KijangMas,

I may have pressed the wrong button and hope this comment would not appear twice.

I wish to say a little about the "report" regarding Makkal Sakti, if I may.

I may have missed it in the papers or elsewhere but until it is verified, I'll treat the report about "turning all 543 Tamil schools into fully-aided schools, etc, etc" and the PM, Dato Seri Najib, saying “You all watch what I do (in 2 years)” with heavy question marks.

It is said that the PM has a Special Officer whose functions include keeping abreast with and advising him on developments in cyber space, including blogs. I am quite sure the PM knows about SSS.

Some have expressed the view that he is busy trying to get back PRU12 runaway votes and may not be in a position to speak favourably or act on the SSS Proposal for the time being. I tend to agree with such a view.

Others have said that the time will come when he has done enough on that score and/ or realizes that he also needs to pay attention on others as well. I am banking on this proposition.

2 years from now is about the time for PRU13 and surely he does not want to lose the support of the "majority others".

Not even 1 year into his administration, let us give him time to do "mending the fences" and watch him closely when such fences have been reasonably mended.

sepadu.

msleepyhead said...

@NJ,
Saya bersetuju sepenuhnya komen saudara mengenai konsep Bangsa Malaysia yang bukan lagi berteraskan etnik nenek moyang yang berhijrah ke bumi bertuah lagi kaya ini. Niat saya bukanlah untuk membandingan baik buruk kaum-kaum di Malaysia, cuma berkongsi pandangan peribadi berdasarkan pengetahuan yang masih cetek dan juga mengambil kesempatan mencungkil ilmu dari saudara Maju yang jelas lebih berpengalaman dan luas membaca. Analogi 'teh tarik' tepat dan menarik sekali! :)

@Maju,
You are definitely right about the Chinese. I for one do not speak for them, not understanding Mandarin pretty much disqualifies msleepy from being one. My comments, as mentioned to NJ, are based on personal views of a naive as-it-is-observed nature. I would add on to your comment that they are ruthless when it comes to opportunities, hence that may be why when they had a foot in the door with the invitation of MLNI in Perak, their grip expanded and lawan towkay.

This nature could be due to the highly competitive dog-eat-dog, as Bakri Musa puts it, scenario since time memorial in China, a quick look at their history would reveal wars all over the place and the changing of emperors one after another. Even today, this money first mentality over morality can be seen not too long ago with the 'melamine milk powder' scandal that killed many of their own.

Gambling, prostitution, snakeheads - human smuggling, to name a few, these are just everyday business for this guys. But I would think the average Chinese Malaysians are average Joe's sending their kids to tuition after school with the hope of entering a local university.

Now that sepadu has written about the political reality of things, I don't know if PM wants to take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone by attempting to start nationalizing this Tamil schools. Of course it has to be done in a subtle manner, or else it gets blown all over the media and start more street protests.

Looking forward to your 'cultural impediments' when you have time.

msleepyhead said...

msleepy reporting:

http://tinyurl.com/ye2nh8v


BANKS are still refusing to give due recognition to the Tamil language despite numerous requests by Indian customers over the years, reported Malaysia Nanban in its editorial.

Indian customers, proficient only in Tamil, are having problems dealing with banks, it said.

It added that, currently, transactions were done only in English, Bahasa Malaysia and Chinese.

It suggested accepting cheques written in Tamil and providing the language option in ATM machines.

It also said that Tamil was recognised as the second widely used language in the Internet after English.

The editorial said banks should have an Indian officer, who is proficient in Tamil, to verify cheques written in Tamil and to help Indian customers solve their banking problems.


Looks like a trend is appearing.

Anonymous said...

"my advice - scramble to the tongkang and never set foot here again, you ungrateful immigrant!!!"

"SJKC-educated, spelling-challenged Anti-Jingoism jaw-farted:-
"Jingoistic claptrap, if this is your test to see who consitututes (sic) a Malaysian. What nest (sic), lining up people against the wall and concentration camps?"

Yeah buddy, obviously such requirements would trigger panic attacks among the clueless pseudo-stateless loser bitch mafa like yourself.

You are already a lost cause, a self-alienising damaged good spilling social toxicity on my formerly pristine land.

Now go ahead and continue your pursuit of emigration options ... and take out your trash and turn off the lights on your way OUT of my motherland."

Hai, the 2 responses I got are above. I typed quickly and made some spelling errors.

On the responses I got, here are some observations :-

1. rather than provide some substances, I am accused (as if it is a crime) of being a Chinese, immigrant/pendatang. Rather than provide something salient, the response is reactive, just like those that cry "racism" at the drop of the spoon. Pity I was expecting more. Obviously if someone disagrees he has to be chinese or an other, apparently, that is all I can be and the only valid counter-argument, if I don't agree I can't be Malay, such narrowness of though does not do justice to the earlier thought-provoking pieces on this website which I find agreeable.

2. This test of Malaysianess based on singing "Negaraku" (thankfully back to its original beat) and Rukun Negara (which I still remember but may require a glance to reinforce the memmory) is simply a fallacy as it encompasses only a group of Malaysians and not all of them. People born prior to 1957 (which includes almost all our parents, people in the interior (Orang Asli, Penan, Thai on the border areas and a host of others) who might not have exposure and the same educational opportunities as we had as all not included in this.

Being Malaysian should be all encompassing and should be defined so narrowly and indeed so jingoistic to the exclusion of everything else. Is this the test of being Malaysian? That one is deemed a Malaysian not by one's actions or contributions but by being able to recite these 2 things?

To the writers of the 2 responses above, I suggest picking 10 of your colleagues at random and asking them to sing Negaraku and recite the Rukun Negara. if they fail, tell them they are not Malaysian and ask them to leave the country, whoever they are and whatever ethnicity they belong. Indeed, all MP's and State Assemblymen should have a surprised spot-check and if unable to sing our national anthem of recite the Ruken Negara they should resign with immediate effect and leave the country, whoever they are.

Anti-Jingoism

Anonymous said...

Anti-Jingoism

It has been pointed out earlier that the issue is not dissenting but of questionable sense of belonging to or love for this country.

True, being Malaysian should be all encompassing but if you think of "contributions" only in the material sense - of paying taxes, etc - this is certainly not enough. It has also been said earlier that loyalty or a strong sense of belonging to the country should not be measured in Ringgit and sen - btw, the others also pay taxes commensurate with their income level or wealth and many pay more by risking their lives in the security and the armed forces - but by fully accepting, respecting and living by the Constitution of the Country.

Accept all the implications, all the ramifications - including the ability to converse well in the National Language, standing up when the National Anthem is played, eradicating the mindset that dares to make fun of it in music, or (as some one has pointed out in the past) say, "Give me what I want first, then I'll give what the country wants."

Loyalty must not be looked at as a business. It is an automatic requirement that you be loyal to the country, respect the Constitution and live by it the moment you become a citizen.

Citizenship must have a high value, unquantifiable, and must not be simply chucked out by tearing Malaysian passports and got stranded for weeks at Heathrow airport for it, demonstrating on London streets after becoming stateless.

You are splitting hairs when you asked, "That one is deemed a Malaysian ... by being able to recite these 2 things?"

Aku

Anonymous said...

Being a CITIZEN is not just PAYING TAXES. Paying taxes can be in any country. So you stay in UK as PR or under working permit and pay taxes, after that can you call yourself a UK citizen?

So naive lah this type of kaum pendatang. Cannot differentiate between Patriotism and TAXES.

MoneyMatters@Nizam said...

If Lim Kit Siang wants to be a Malaysian Prime Minister, these are the conditions;

1. Speak Bahasa Melayu fluently. Not like what he did in Parliament. Wa tatak tau lo..

2. Show your respect to the constitution. Respect DYMM, National Language

3. Islam as your religion

4. Assimilate yourself with the root culture - MALAY

5. NATIONAL ASPIRATION first not RACE. Abolish SJK school, go to ONE SCHOOL

6. Ridzuan Tee is the best example.

Barubhasa Al-Jawiyun said...

There are two of the same things (or people for that matter) which are yet different:-

1. One who cannot sing Negara Ku.
2. One who does not sing Negara Ku.

They both are the same - no Negara Ku. Yet one is really different to another because the one who cannot sing, cannot really sing (yet). But the one who does not sing, simply because he does not want to sing.

Same goes for speaking, writing and using Bahasa Kebangsaan.

Anti Jingo Mingo suggested:-

"...picking 10 of your colleagues at random and asking them to sing Negaraku and recite the Rukun Negara. if they fail, tell them they are not Malaysian...

We say:-

It is not merely picking up at random and asking them to recite on the spot and judge the "kewarga negaraan" from the outcome.

When you wrote your comment up there, Anti Jingo Mingo, (trying to follow your line) Are you the Orang Asli, Penan, Thai on the border areas and a host of others or the illiterate one whom have never been exposed to education? Or are you the one who just simply dont want to sing Negara Ku, use bahasa Kebangsaan, never a Malaysian at heart?

Barubhasa Al-Jawiyun

Anonymous said...

Aku, I agree with you . I don't believe I am splitting hairs as the spirit of this posting is very narrow. Nationalistic feelings have been misused worldwide historically and it is in the spirit of opposing this narrow definition that I write. We/I don't want the definition of being a Malaysian being one of narrrowness when our country is so much more. The tone of my initial posting may have been aggressive but I definitely welcome and invite discourse. I don't mean contributions as in monetary contributions but overall contributions to the country. It is your perspective that has assumed that what I meant by contributions is taxes :)

Annoymous September 30, 2009 4:25 PM - Can't answer you as you are answering a question no one asked or hinted.

Barubhasa Al-Jawiyun - not sure what you are talking about, in what context do people not sing negaraku? What where when who etc,

I notice that quite a lot of people start insulting the messenger rather than the message

You go on to say "Or are you the one who just simply dont want to sing Negara Ku, use bahasa Kebangsaan, never a Malaysian at heart?"

Please do not simply accuse me. I insulted the idea in this posting, unfortunately most of the responses have simply been reactive and tried to insult the messenger.

It says above the comment box here "All thoughts and opinions are welcome, but the following will not be posted:-- Personal attacks, insults, or threatening language"
Unfortunately even the blog owner has whacked me in a wholly personal way rather than what I have said.

Anti-Jingoism

Anonymous said...

Anti-Jingoism,

You talked about "contributions" without spelling them out. People assume they are monetary, you deny but without spelling them out when denying. An ordinary person would have spelt them out in the first place and would have done so the second time. But you are not ordinary, are you?

Give details and examples la, Mister. What "overall contributions" are you talking about?

Scrolling up to earlier comments I find you saying, "Jingoistic claptrap ... What nest, lining up people against the wall and concentration camps?" No explanation on what you meant. Like that, I can also accuse you all sorts of things, but it ain't right, innit? People have commented against the latter part but you also have not explained one bit even in subsequent comments. Then you accuse people of "shooting the messenger".

You sound well educated. When you behave like that and people criticize you, you say people are getting personal. Then you accuse others of being narrow-minded. This is the problem with your kind. You need to think of other people as well, not just yourself and what is convenient or favourable to you.

It's a matter of respecting and living by the Constitution, the Rukun Negara and all that come out from those, including standing up when the National Anthem is played and singing Negara Ku when expected to do so.

No shooting of the messenger if he tells the abc as they happened but not when he gives his own interpretations that may be irritating or offensive to battle-fatigue corporals and sergeants. They might even "line you up against the wall or place you in a concentration camp" - to use your own words.

When you give your own interpretations or opinions, you need to provide the basis or details that justify them. You cannot make accusations or wild remarks in 1-2 sentences and expect to get away with them.

Especially when they are non-mainstream. Anything not in line with the Constitution and the Rukun Negara is non-mainstream.

Aku

msleepyhead said...

Reporting:
http://tinyurl.com/y9pb3sj

So which box does the author of the letter tick in government forms, Bumiputera or Lain-lain?

@anti-jingo, just ignore those that can't discuss in a proper way, in the wise words of Maju, "May I respectfully suggest that we don't get distracted by those who choose to say things in their own style."

If you had followed this blog and KM's comments you would've understood his style of writing. This posting is no different. It is just pointing out that after years of schooling, especially from the 70s generation onwards, there is no reason not to know the national anthem by heart, Rukunegara, well at least we should all know the five principles since it's at the back of every school exercise book.

The core issue is not so much being able to sing or recite those important things, but the issue of a sense of belonging to the country.

The SSS is a start to that.

John Cena said...

People,

This anti-jizz jingophobe, with his/her logic gymnastics and putar belit doubletalk, is just a waste of time.

The nature of this beast makes him/her incapable of appreciating meticulous rationalizations by well-intentioned DN denizens.

A good drop kick to the breadbasket and a double-whammy body-slam should awaken this epitome of bodoh sombong obnoxism from his/her subversive comfort zone to the abject reality of his/her wretched existence as a stateless dwindling minority in a land increasingly shaken by the reverberations of discontent from the hordes of restless natives.

antumonggo said...

Rightly put by msleepyhead:-

The core issue is not so much being able to sing or recite those important things, but the issue of a sense of belonging to the country.

And here comes an alien who wears a t-shirt which says "Shoot Me" with a smaller print "I am an alien, not one of you, earthlings!"

This alien with such t-shirt sure will raise the earthlings eyebrows. What more, this alien behave such that no earthling would waste anytime but to aim and throw dart at him.

When shot at, this alien cries foul blaming and accusing everybody. Why insult "the messenger?", this alien FARTED!

Sound familiar? crappy jingo lingo bingo?

msleepyhead said...

@Maju,

Agreed that it takes more than one generation to succeed and accumulate wealth. It begins with the sacrifice of the first generation to provide for their progeny to push it through, either through education or otherwise, and by the third generation, the stability that the second generation provided would have allowed them to spread their wings and soar higher. Sometimes the first generation will gain through ill-gotten wealth to provide for the next one. That's how far some of the people are willing to go.

What's interesting though is now we are seeing a new wave of immigrants, at least for ten years now we have had a generation of Indonesians and Bangladeshis, followed later by the Vietnamese, Nepalis and others, will they also overwhelm the locals when it comes to 'success' at least in the material sense?

Also, would you by any chance know more about the Malaccan generation (1400s)? What happened to them, it was reported in textbook to be the golden age, perhaps much more than we have accomplished now in relative terms. Where there was international trade (perdagangan entrepot crops to mind) and said to be the center of Islamic learning in the region? I'm asking in earnestness because you mentioned of the thousand year old tradition of doing business, but the immigrants who came to these shores are coolies and labourers probably without education. So they would have started from zero too.

I believe it is merely the clash of cultures, the Malays came from a non-materialistic, spiritual rooted one and the Chinese are all out make it or break it success measured by materialism one. Now that the Malays too want material wealth, are they willing to forgo their cultural identity in this chase?

msleepyhead said...

While researching on Parameswara and Malacca on my favourite haunt Wiki (sorry Maju), it led to this:

1. http://tinyurl.com/ycwbeyp

and somehow this popped up,

2. http://tinyurl.com/y8euacl

Guess while we're grappling and talking about unity issues, they have certainly forged ahead, befitting their 'advanced/developed' status.

Action does speak louder than words.

Sigh, how about scrapping everything and start afresh, stop the infighting and really work towards something.

Somehow the back and forths with Maju now feels trivial, no disrespect, but what's past is past and we can't keep going on harping on the same old issues. The truth is, and LKY has said this years ago (and I'm not even a fan of Singapura), the development of this country ultimately depends solely on the Malays, it's in the constitution, it's in the government, it's on the streets, it's in a fishing village, it's in a bistro in Bangsar, the others are mere supporting actors waiting for the main one to realize how well the show performs, depends squarely on him.

Double sigh, I'm just going to go read 1. and nurse my sorrows for a while.

Anonymous said...

Part 1

Hello mr.sleepyhead, I too support the SSS. The idea of separate schooling systems simply makes no sense. If this posting is as you describe then my earlier comments are misplaced. I just don't think that there should be narrow definitions but maybe I have not understood the spirit of the posting and looked simply at its details. I would not be writing this if I did not believe in my country.

Hello Aku, when I wrote "contributions" I did not have the idea of monetary contributions to the country's coffers running in my head. More of contributions to the country/society as a whole by service and action. I don't claim to be extraordinary or ordinary. I am just myself but I honestly was not thinking of monetary contributions so expected others to have the same line of thought. You thought of monetary contributions and hence thought others had the same line of thought, so we both thought others would be thinking like us. The idea of monetary contributions/taxes is a very western one. In Malaysia where a lot of people do not pay income tax, where there is a very narrow base of income tax payers who even then do not pay western european levels of tax (including hidden taxes) and where corporate tax and dividends from Petronas play bigger role in funding the operations and plans to the govt, the idea of contributions via tax is not suitable and hence never in my thoughts.

I did not accuse anyone of anything? I was simply visceral against this idea. It was a quick antagonistic comment against the idea, not the person. It this difficult to understand?

One should not have an arbitrary definition of being a Malaysian and certainly nowhere in the constitution, Rukun Negara and in Negara Ku, does it say knowing the above is a prequisite. However as mr.sleepyhead mentioned if someone has gone through the school system in the 70s to present and does not know it then there is a failure somewhere in the system. But to arbitarily decide who is or not a Malaysian, well I don't agree with that.

On lining people and concentration camps, that was alluding to what happened in WWII in Europe where the Nazi's and those allied to them decided what was German/Aryan and what was not and those who were disabled, gypsies, non-caucasians, homosexuals, ant-nazis and of course jews were considered not german/European/Aryan enough and were killed, no matter how german/Hungarian/polish etc each one of them felt. And of course the mass killings and deportations in the Soviet Union as well. I was alluding that there should not be anyone creating these kind of criteria on who is or is not a Malaysian and brought this up to show where this had gone when it was taken to the extreme.

I don't accuse anyone of being narrow but the idea of being narrow.

"It's a matter of respecting and living by the Constitution, the Rukun Negara and all that come out from those, including standing up when the National Anthem is played and singing Negara Ku when expected to do so." Ok, but this is different from the posting. Maybe as I mentioned above I have looked at the details and missed the spirit of the posting.

"Especially when they are non-mainstream. Anything not in line with the Constitution and the Rukun Negara is non-mainstream."

Hai, first not ordinary and now non-mainstream.
Is knowing the Rukun Negara and our national anthem explicitly stated as a prequisite to being a Malaysian? Since it is not written anywhere including in the constitution, then the idea in this posting becomes non-mainstream then does it not? Then those who agree with it are non-mainstream?
See where I am going of the idea of arbitary requirements? who decides?

And just to broaden the idea the constitution as we know it is a construct, not a religious text and in our 52 years of existence as Malaya and our 46 as Malaysia it has been changed many times including to include Sabah and Sarawak and the errant Singapore.

Anti-Jingoism

Anonymous said...

Part 2

John Cena on people being discontent, did this discontent simply happen since last year or was it always under the surface? What is the root cause of this discontent and will it fade away depending on the outcome of the next GE? Would it not have happened if the last GE were not so surprising? Discontent with what exactly?

"A good drop kick to the breadbasket and a double-whammy body-slam should awaken this epitome of bodoh sombong obnoxism from his/her subversive comfort zone to the abject reality of his/her wretched existence as a stateless dwindling minority in a land increasingly shaken by the reverberations of discontent from the hordes of restless natives."

The above is exactly an example of how anyone disagreeing with this posting is being painted by some commentators as something else, as if everything is a binary choice and you HAVE to be this if you disagree. Also a lot of empty words.

Anti-Jingoism

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

About culture, "superior culture", "cultural impediments" -

First, a definition of culture. There are over 100 definitions provided by anthropologists, sociologists, historians etc. But the universally accepted definition is:

"the sum total of the experiences of a community".

Culture is not only literary works, music, art, architecture etc. Culture is the creativity, the thinking, the mindset, the values of right and wrong and reasonableness, the attitude of groups of people. It is the way of life of the people. Hence there are such things as aboriginal culture; in the absence of literary works, for example, folklore takes its place. It is the totality of the experiences of the community, throughout its entire history, the good and the bad. Hence business and corruption are also aspects of culture.

There is no such thing as "superior culture", only varying cultural forms and levels of finesse or refinement. For example, the sculptural works of one community may be refined whereas those of another may not.

Also, appreciation of art etc is often subjective; it is “in the eyes of the beholder”. Similarly, the thinking, mindset and attitude of a people, the discernible characteristics of one group, including Hitler and the Nazis, cannot be “superior” to another.

The Ketuanan Melayu is not about "superior culture". It is about history. It is about recognising that the Malays have been in this country since time immemorial. Note that the Orang Aslis are also of the Malay stock - historians, anthropologists and sociologists call the Orang Aslis “Proto-Malays” and call the later Malays “Deutro-Malays”.

And the term "Rumpun Melayu" refers to all the Malays from Patani in southern Thailand to those people in southern Philippines (even the Christian Filipinos call their independence fighter, Jose Rizal, "a Malay hero"), Sumatera, Java and the huge island almost at the tip of Australia, about half of which is called Papua New Guinea. The date of arrival of the earlier Malays has not been determined, even estimated. The later Malays were here at least about 2,000 years ago; Greek, Indian and Arabic records mention it. As I'm not writing a Ph.D thesis, I don't have to quote authorities etc except perhaps 1-2.

Culture definitely also includes history. The length of history of a people does not necessarily indicate superiority or level of civilisation. The Egyptians now have only ancient monuments and relics of antiquity to be proud of. The West ceased to call China a "pariah" state only about a decade or so ago. The Indians have been fighting with one another politically so much that they almost let an Italian (married to a past PM) run them as PM - even the Americans have a law stipulating their President to be American-born.

China with 3,500 years of history (longer if based on archeology) does not have a "superior" or "great" culture, though some aspects of Chinese cultural forms reached a high level of refinement. Professor C.P Fitzgerald would have told you that; he died in the 1990s, but his book, "China: A Short Cultural History" remains. "Short" but 600 over pages, yet nowhere in it is mentioned such things as the "superiority" of Chinese culture or Chinese race. That should debunk the myth held by SJKC "graduates" writing here and there about a "superior culture dominating the weaker ones", adamantly clinging to Mandarin and refusing to accept Bahasa Malaysia. If they have a good knowledge of Chinese history, and of Malaysian history, they ought to fully accept Bahasa Malaysia rather than glamourise Mandarin.

Maju.

(Continued in Part 2)

Anonymous said...

Part 2.

Mssleepyhead,

Mandarin is not the mother tongue of the Mainland Chinese. It is not the mother tongue of the Chinese in Malaysia. They speak various dialects all over the vast country in the Mainland and in this country. They don’t speak it at home, they don’t use it as a “way of life”. So, can it be called culture? Language is an aspect of culture if it is used “habitually” throughout the course of daily life.

They use Mandarin only on official business. The Manchu court officials and nobility may have spoken Mandarin both officially and at home but they formed a negligible percentage of the Chinese population and are hardly around any more. When the Chinese Revolution occurred and the communists came into power early last century, even the ruling elite didn’t use Mandarin at home – they were mainly of the peasant class and, in non-official life, spoke the language of the peasants, not Mandarin.

Mandarin had united the Chinese in China into one nation. Why can’t the Chinese in Malaysia accept it as a tool to unite people in this country? After all, BM is the Official and the National Language of this country. After 52 years still not conversant with the language? Isn’t it a matter of attitude, values, mindset, reasonableness? Why can’t they accept the SSS Proposal as a means to unite Malaysians?

No doubt our past leaders had unwittingly allowed the vernacular schools such that it has become a big problem to national unity now. But BM is clearly stated in the Constitution. Nobody is denying the right to learn Mandarin. But wanting Mandarin to continue as the medium of instruction in schools – is that not unreasonableness?

Let’s not use the words “cultural impediment” for the time being because even whether Mandarin can be called Chinese culture or not appears a moot point as stated above.

More to come, another time.

Maju.

satD said...

Yo Miss Sleepyhead

Your said
"Now that the Malays too want material wealth, are they willing to forgo their cultural identity in this chase?"

Why must one forgo Cultural Identity? Did any of the Native North Asians forgo their Cultural Identities in pursuit of material wealth?

Look around us regionally and globally every single immigrant race that set foot in another country to search for material wealth put serious effort to be more local instead of jumping up and down like monkeys on LSD harping on segregation from every aspect of life...and mind you this is after they have conquered the country economically....

Ape lu cita ni?

Start with National Language first la....and just don't say it...use it..

Sdr Anti-Jingoism

Sekiranya Sdr benar2 setuju dengan Kemmpen SSS sy berharap agar Sdr menandatangani petisyen kami...dan sy juga berharap agar Sdr sempat meluangkan waktu untuk menulusuri portal SSS di satusekolahuntuksemua.wordpress.com untuk memahami dengan lebih mendalam. Yg harus di sadari adalah Objectif awal Kempen SSS iaitu untuk melakukan pengkajian secara menyeluruh terhadap sistem pembelajaran di Malaysia, ayuh kita semua memfokuskan tenaga kita untuk menyebarkan maklumat tg Kempen SSS seluas mungkin.

Anonymous said...

Correction:

"Mandarin had united the Chinese in China into one nation. Why can’t the Chinese in Malaysia accept it as a tool to unite people in this country?" -

pls substitute "BM" for "it".

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

@satD, nice to hear from you again and by 'giving up' their cultural identity, I meant being perceived, outwardly at least, like the Chinese to be materialistic, money chasing people (that's definitely not PC). To put it simply, they are economic minded. On why they are still being stubborn and selfish when it comes to language for unity, I've no answer to that. That's the sole reason I'm bringing up the discussion here, not defending them.

@Maju, thanks as usual for taking the time to write up detailed thoughts. Culture in our discussions meant the most general of sense and practices of the people. You are absolutely right that there is no superior culture, academically or otherwise, but perceptions and a quick look around tells otherwise. How else can we explain the affirmative action policies (not to be confused with Special Rights) to 'uplift' the Malays in the country. You said so yourself, we should not begrudge them for trying to catch up. It is something about the spirit of th people if it's not culture.

More digging revealed this:

http://tinyurl.com/yambylu

Is it right that hundreds, nay thousands of men should grow up not knowing how to read or write or do simple sums? It makes them look ridiculous in the eyes of other races who cheat them over measurements and weights and computations, and in general wherever writing is involved.

And it may just explain why MLNI asked the Chinese and offered them the opportunity to open up the mines over his own people. Is it possible they simply had the prerequisite to run it and get the job done? It's outcome, kongsi gelap and all is another thing altogether.

Of course we've come a long way since then, and if people like you, satD, KM and the DN community, forms the majority of the country, then it's in good hands.

Before being accused of being a racist or having no right to speak about the Malay culture unless I'm one, I'm just here to understand where all of us come from.

Hava good weekend ya'll.

satD said...

ms sleepyhead

FYI

I come from Jalan Merbau belake sekoloh Maahad Muhammadi

:)

Tommy Yewfigure said...

But, but satD, I thot u come from the Planet of the Apes?

Unker Tommy

P/S - Good input from all round, well done. Msleepyhead, I like ur style. Hey Bosz, where r u?

satD said...

Unker u didn't know ka the location ...next time watch the credits after movie end...all shot exclusively belakang rumah gue dong

Anonymous said...

7th August Morakot –Taiwan

2nd Sept - earthquake Tasikmalaya district,

26th Sept Ondoy– Philipines

28th Sept - Samoa Island Region

29th Sep - Typhoon Ketsana (Philippines and Viet Nam before hitting Cambodia)

30th Sept - Two major earthquakes Padang, West Sumatra,

3rd Oct Pharma – Philipines

3rd Oct - Moderate quake off Fiji

4th Oct - floods in India

Malaysia is such a blessed country not having to have to face all the above disasters suffered by our neighboring countries.

And as Bumiputras, we have bestowed with such peace and tranquility for centuries..

However, here we are (who are you people????) shaking and drowning ourselves with nonstop ramblings, hitting one another with so much disrespect, air liur mencurah2 bagaikan tsunami!

WHY?

Tongkang

msleepyhead said...

Tongkang has got a point there. We should work together and not against each other. The discussions must contribute to the betterment of the SSS.

@satD, luculah bro, perli lah tu.
tapi kitaorang pun tinggai dekat skolah juga - datuk onn kat teloq ayer tawar.

msleepyhead said...

Thank you Unker Yew for the nods. Just trying to dig further and understand the cultural differences that is causing so much friction today.

This may explain why the kedai runcits do well.
http://tinyurl.com/y8ltro2

If you are a Malaysian in Malaysia, or a Kenyan in Kenya, or an African-American in Watts, and you want to run a grocery store, you start with a handicap: you have friends and relatives who want jobs, or discounts. You can’t deny credit or collect a debt from your neighbor, because he’s your neighbor, and your social and business lives are tied up together.

Don't know how much of it is true but another food for thought, why are the Nasi Kandar operators employing foreign labour, apart from their low salary, is it also possible that they work the longest hours and since they are temporarily here, work for as much money as possible? Compare that to local workers with friends, family, and the environment that 'distracts' them from working long hours.

KijangMas said...

Tommy Yewfigure said:-
"Hey Bosz, where r u?"

Unker Yew, I've been pretty much preoccupied with issues and stuff on the other side of the Pacific puddle. Anyway, back in our blessed Tanah Air now. Recently had a kopitiam makan and chat with my buddy, the slightly off-tangent Robin, in PJ while on a stopover from LA to KB. Surreal stuff.

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Omong said:-
"Those criteria and more, should be made compulsory in the citizenship test."

Yes Omong, those are the bare minimum. In addition, "refresher" bootcamps spiced with KM's own TLC treatment in my Kelantan dusun hideway would do a lot of good to the hardcore totoks of the Ronnie Liu and Teresa Kock variety.

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Naif said:-
"May I know who created the SSS website? Whoever it is, I'd like to thank him for including me as one of the "E-Patriots". An honour indeed."

Salam Naif. The SSS website was created by a group of concerned patriots. Who these heroes are is not as important as their message to our fellow countrymen.

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Dal said:-
"On the first opportunity, visited the SSS new site, left a simple comment, only then come visiting here. Sorry Tuan KijangMas, I normally drop in here first before anywhere else."

Salam Pakcik Dal. Your enthusiasm for SSS is understandable. I do the same thing myself.

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SSS Admin said:-
"Kami ingin merakamkan rasa setinggi-tinggi penghargaan kami terhadap Tuan sempena kelahiran Portal Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua di wordpress. Di laman citra Demi Negara inilah, SSS di ilhamkan, dicetuskan serta dikandung sehingga SSS dilahirkan di wordpress pada hari Merdeka."

Terima kasih saudara/i.

Sebenarnya, SSS jadi kenyataan atas daya usaha ramai rakan-rakan patriot seperjuangan seperti saudara/i. Saya hanya menyediakan suatu wadah maya untuk membolehkan para warga DN berinteraksi.

Perjuangan kita baru bermula. Sokongan padu majoriti insan yang menggelar diri mereka "Warganegara Malaysia" adalah matlamat SSS. Tiada jalan lain bagi negara ini. Satu Sekolah adalah unsur yang paling ASAS dalam pembinaan suatu Bangsa Malaysia yang teguh bersatupadu.

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Kembara Politik said:-
"Begitu bersemangat apabila membaca post yang pendek tapi padat ini."

Salam Sdr Kembara. Ya, ada kalanya sesuatu pendirian tidak perlu di huraikan dengan panjang lebar.

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Tamim Dari said:-
"Is a blessing from God that your community, the DN Community have successfully given birth to another star of a website no less promising than yours. I most proudly congratulate you."

Thank you for your kind words. The anonymous webmasters of SSS deserve all the credit.

KijangMas said...

msleepyhead said:-
"Vernacular schools are already here, call them cancer if you will, but like its given namesake have taken root and have spread all over the nation."

Excellent point msleepyhead.

Now people, how do one treat cancer?

Dinner in PJ kopitiam with KM (and maybe Robin) for the correct answer.

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NJ said:-
"... menggunakan bahasa cina dan bahasa tamil dan lain-lain bahasa asing sebagai media penghantar (samada dalam pembelajaran, komunikasi rasmi seperti papan tanda, blog 1Malaysia, .. dsb) adalah bertentangan dengan Akta Bahasa Kebangsaan dan Penggunaan Bahasa Melayu sebagai Bahasa Kebangsaan sepertimana yang diperuntukkan oleh Perlembagaan Persekutuan ... Harap ada dikalangan pembaca dari bidang undang-undang ... dapat menjelaskan perkara ini serta memperbetulkan tulisan ini sekiranya didapati tidak betul."

Salam Sdr NJ. Kefahaman sdr tentang perkara ini tidak perlu di perbetulkan. Ianya memang tepat, dan Akta Bahasa Kebangsaan sudah cukup jelas tentang perkasaan dan keunggulan Bahasa Melayu dalam segala urusan rasmi negara.

Yang telah memperlekehkan hukum ini hingga menjerumus Bahasa Kebangsaan kita ke ambang kepupusan adalah spesis primat yang berjenama Homo malayopolitikus stupidii yang kini telah membiak ke setiap pelusuk pola politik negara ini. Berbagai konsesi di berikan oleh sang-sang primat ini untuk memuaskan kehendak tamak haloba tak terbendung spesis makhluk perosak Homo pendatanginitis.

Ini termasuklah impian kayangan 1 Malaysia yang memanda PM kita kini mau menyemarakkan menjadi 1 Region dan 1 World.

Lepastu apa? 1 Galaxy?

Memanda PM kita harus membuktikan keberkesanan impian nya di tahap 1 Neighbourhood dahulu sebelum tergamak untuk menSatukan seluruh dunia.

Saya tidak faham bagaimana pemimpin sebuah negara yang kian hari semakin renggang dan bergolak tentang perkara se asas-asasnya seperti Bahasa dan Identiti Nasional boleh berhujah tanpa segan silu di pentas dunia sebagai pencetus suatu formula keramat yang akan menyatukan kesemua enam billion hamba Allah di bumi ini di bawah panji 1 World.

Aneh dan menakjubkan ...

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Retrogina said:-
"I read this posting of yours with a serious tone (while having a cuppa)and when it came to the part when you said "give yourself a good tight slap..." I spewed my tea. Cheh! Habih basah keyboard ... I had a good laugh."

Hahaha ... be more careful next time you read a DN post. You'll never know when the wry humour kicks in ...

Luckily it was only tea and not one of those thick gooey decadent waist-busting concoctions.

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Semerah Padi said:-
"Dalam Perlembagaan hanya disebut 5 kaum sahaja:-
(i) Orang Asli
(ii) Melayu
(iii) Bumiputera Sarawak
(iv) Bumiputera Sabah
(v) Lain-lain kaum

Sepatutnya segala borang-borang rasmi hanya berpandukan kepada 5 kaum yang ternyata di atas."

Setuju.

Dan lima "muka" yang harus di tonjolkan dalam segala promosi 1 Malaysia dan Malaysia Truly Asia adalah:-
(i) Orang Asli
(ii) Melayu
(iii) Bumiputera Sarawak
(iv) Bumiputera Sabah
(v) Lain-lain kaum (pilih SATU muka sahaja dari kalangan kaum-kaum lain yang tidak ternama dalam Perlembagaan).

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Omong said:-
"The chinese Indonesians speak their national language perfectly, even when they are overseas."

Absolutely!

My Sambal Trassi addicted Tionghua Indonesian buddies in LA -- Budi, Anton and Susi -- certainly attest to that. And beyond mere language, these assimilated people are also renown for their elaborate syair in Peranakan Malay.

But in Malaysia? Haiyaah, Ayoyooo .....

Kenn said...

I like to share the comment I submitted at Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua website, as below. I think it is important for Malaysians to take a serious look at our current race relation.

I like to extract a paragraph on the Star News report today titled “Don’t take Bendera’s threat to attack lightly:-

(http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/10/7/focus/4853807&sec=focus)

They may create a civil war by attacking one particular race and hoping the attacked race would retaliate thinking these attackers are locals. They probably know how fragile our race relationship is.”

Our race relationship is that FRAGILE !!! At least that’s how a neighbour sees it!

And here some of us and government still do not see how IMPORTANT to have a single National school system, no more racial based SRJKs, for the sake of the country.

Very very strange indeed!!!

msleepyhead said...

@KM
My Sambal Trassi addicted Tionghua Indonesian buddies in LA -- Budi, Anton and Susi

and one would have thought that they are Nusantara Malays from their names (not to be confused with Arabic ones). ;)

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

On “cultural impediments” –

The slogan “unity in diversity” appears to me a contradiction in terms. Just as “doing things in parallel” will not get people together for the simple reason that parallel lines never meet. We need to go on convergent paths. Culture also being a set of values, attitude and mindset, we need to think in terms of finding common values, adjusting our attitude and thinking to lessen our differences for the sake of progress.

Divergence, even contradiction, in social, religious and cultural values impede progress. Signboards in parts of Petaling Jaya and Subang Jaya have been changed more than twice in a short span of time due to exuberance in and opposition to the use of Chinese language; the bickering, the time, the money and the energy could have been used for other activities that can help the two municipalities progess. The relocating of pig farms, or of the Indian temple in Shah Alam, could have saved everybody involved a lot of time and energy which could have been used for finding the badly needed resources to develop the state of Selangor.

Multi-cultural as we are, we need to find the means whereby people are always aware of and sensitive to the needs and the taboos of others so that the minimum is done that requires to be undone soon after in order to save our resources for development. The question is often asked: why need to understand the needs and the taboos of one community more than the others. The answer is that one community is the majority and has been here since this country was first inhabited. Non-acceptance of that fact is an attitude or a mindset that is an impediment to progress. The energy, resources and goodwill wasted over that issue could be used for development. Since that non-acceptance (despite knowing the facts of history) appears to have stemmed from set values, mind and thinking, it may be called “cultural impediments” to progress.

Acceptance of the need for the Special Position of the Malays and the NEP, and the taboo against questioning that Special position allows for unimpeded progress. May 13, 1969 is evidence of the loss of life, property, time and effort, and more importantly, investment and business climate, which could have contributed to progress. Acceptance of the fact that this country has been called Malaya and Malaysia i.e after the Malays (including the Orang Aslis who are “Proto-Malays”) as the original inhabitants, that the Malays are the “Tuan Rumah” (or even the “Tuan Tanah”) who agreed that the non-Malays stay here (Menteri Larut Ngah Ibrahim even invited some) and be given citizenship, would help bring about peace and stability, a prerequisite for investment, development and pogress.

Likewise, acceptance by the Tuan Rumah of the fact that the non-Malays have contributed to the progress of the nation and that their forefathers have agreed that the non-Malays be given citizenship and become a member of the family, that citizenship which cannot be questioned, would help make everybody feel at ease living in this country. As happens everywhere in the world, new members would of course follow the ways of the family that have been established by the old members. Especially when those ways, like Bahasa Melayu, have been incorporated in the Constitution.

The SSS is an attempt at building a convergent path, at getting Malaysians think, behave and develop common values – on the National Language, on being together, understanding one another, caring for the country, respecting and living by the Constitution. We have seen so many instances of childen laughing and playing together, oblivious to their ethnic background, feeling that the other is just a friend, a pal, a buddy, growing to become mutually respecting fellow Malaysians. I dream of the day when the vast majority in every community in the country to day think, behave and feel that way. It will take time to get there but let’s begin now.

Maju.

msleepyhead said...

Thanks Maju for your heartfelt thoughts as always. Everything is spot on. I too don't get the Chinese road signs or the changing of their names, like Jalan Alor previously. There has been too much tit for tat, for the show of power.

On another note, I think we should capitalize on the '1' trend right now.

How does '1Sekolah' sound?

The timing is right to hitch on the '1' bandwagon.

Rebrand the three 'SSS' to '1S'. Gotta strike while the iron is hot.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

I'm sure the DN Community appreciates your sense of togetherness as reflected in the above comment of yours, to the extent of making a suggestion on how best to go about with Kempen SSS.

In this regard, though I'm not the blog owner and am a mere member of the DN Community so to speak, I feel that you also belong to this Community. However, the SSS slogan has been used for quite some time and has apparently become acceptable to many.

Let's do what we can to promote SSS. Getting more people to sign the Petition is something we can do. Assuming that those not respecting the Constitution and demanding non-BM media of instruction are only limited in number, I think the "silent majority" exists in all communities. We need to persuade more of them.

It has been a pleasure talking to you thru this medium, Demi Negara. Let me, by this comment of mine, give a vote of thanks to our host, the venerable KijangMas Perkasa, on behalf of both of us.

We'll meet again in DN or elsewhere, I'm quite sure.

Maju.