Sunday, January 9, 2011

Hail the New Year, Patriotism is Back, ........ but Whither the Nons?




Malaysia's victorious run in the AFF Suzuki Cup -- the ASEAN World Cup -- rekindled our patriotism to heights not seen since the epic Thomas Cup win of 1992. The exploits of our Harimau Malaya warriors captured our imagination, as the nation is mesmerised by the team's spirited performance against all odds, not least the fanatical antics of Indonesian supporters in Jakarta. Being extricated out of a hotel under siege and transported to the stadium and back inside a convoy of armoured personnel carriers is certainly a first in world soccer -- another Malaysia Boleh moment to cherish.



What more can I say, except: "Syabas Harimau Malaya atas keperwiraan mu."


With continued guidance, competent coaching and less distraction from bandwagon-jumping politicians, our Harimau Malaya will only get stronger as this is essentially the B team, with at least 10 first choice players injured or unavailable. The AFF Cup winning squad would certainly be pressured for places by the  likes of Aidil Zafuan, Zaquan Adha, Baddrol Bathtiar and S. Chanturu plus such established stalwarts such as Indra Putra Mahyuddin, Norhafiz Zamani Misbah and Shukor Adan. This bodes well for Malaysian football as the strength in depth and competition for places would only strengthen Harimau Malaya as we compete beyond the ASEAN region.

I personally witnessed Malaysia's 3-0 demolition of Indonesia in the first leg of the final at Bukit Jalil. I've had my share of sporting events -- from the old Merdeka Tournament to NBA basketball and NFL grid iron to NCAA college football to the 1984 LA Olympics and USA 1994 World Cup -- but the electric atmosphere, the patriotic frenzy, the pride to be Malaysian I witnessed at the stadium was special.

Perhaps we were playing the auld enemy, Indonesia, in a local derby between two brother nations of the Malay World. Perhaps the trash-talk on Facebook, Twitter and innumerable cyber forum sites ignited this surge of patriotic pride. Or perhaps the 5-1 hiding in Jakarta must be avenged. But whatever the cause, the cavernous 100,000 capacity stadium was filled to the brim, with thousands more ticketless fans locked outside.

To soak in the atmosphere, my party took public transport – the LRT – to and fro between the Setiawangsa and Bukit Jalil stations.  The journey turned out to be quite memorable. At every station as we got closer to the stadium, ever increasing Malaysian fans resplendent in their Harimau Malaya livery and wrapped in the Jalur Gemilang joined in the merriment, with spontaneous hearty renditions of Inilah Barisan Kita amidst the din of air horns and various mutations of the vuvuzela. I couldn’t help but snigger at the shell-shocked faces of the multifarious foreigners and patently obvious illegals who nowadays seem to roam boldly, freely and noisily in KL’s public transport system. Malaysian patriots reclaimed the LRT at least on that day.

At Bukit Jalil, as the floodgates opened -- 1-0, then 2-0, then 3-0, a legit penalty denied -- with the young Harimau Malaya warriors devouring a shell-shocked Garuda squad, the patriotic pride and camaraderie among the Malaysian supporters reached frenzied proportions.  Likewise the huge crowd that watched the Jakarta return leg at Dataran Merdeka's big screen as Malaysia clinched the tie on aggregate. Of course, the throng of fans that overwhelmed KLIA security upon the team's return was almost without precedence.  Quite understandably, PM Najib and other politicians quickly cashed in on this "feel good" factor and gleefully jumped on the bandwagon with various pronouncements and incentives.

Across the land, Malaysians proudly wear their replica Harimau Malaya jerseys. Sites dedicated to Malaysian football proliferate in cyberspace. Check out the numerous Facebook pages set-up by Harimau Malaya fans and browse through the often heated cyber-sparring with still sore Indonesian fans. Amidst all the cyber-bravado, "aku bangga jadi anak Malaysia" forms the basis of the Malaysian replies to tragically comedic Indo provocations centered around stolen songs and costumes and now even rendang, kunyit and various condiments as incited by their unethical media plying questionable agendas.


Folks, Malaysian patriotism is back with a vengeance.


BUT something's missing from all these festivities and feel good euphoria that gripped the nation over the past fortnight.


You know what it is?


Now, let's see .....

How come this football epic has become a Malay only story? Firstly, except for Kunanlan and coach Rajagobal, the rest of the football heroes are Malays. 







And 99% of the Malaysian supporters at Bukit Jalil are Malays.





And the Malaysian patriots sparring with their aggressive Indo counterparts on Facebook and elsewhere in cyberspace are again practically all Malays.

And the huge Dataran Merdeka crowd that watched the second leg on the big screen are almost all Malays.






Plus the KLIA welcoming crowd are again almost all Malays.




 ... I can go on and on about hometown receptions and such, but the point is:-


Where are the non-Malays?



What happened to the so-called "nons" amidst all the cheering and national rejoicing? Come on lah, aren't you people proud as well? Why this aversion to partake in celebrations with your fellow rakyat on such joyous occasions? Do you have to be bribed with free food and showered with tax-payers' financed Kongsi Raya giveaways before you shuffle your self-centered butts and elbow your way to sapu the buffet spread like a swarm of locusts?

You demand all sorts of "rights" and the right to be treated equally. But you do not demonstrate to us the majority your willingness to equally share our moments of patriotic joy as fellow rakyats. 

You see folks, the nons get angry and demand apologies whenever their patriotism gets questioned? Zahid Hamidi  was not incorrect when he questioned the nons' patriotism for their lack of interest in signing up for the armed services (or for that matter the Bomba, JPJ, Customs and other "national service" agencies).  It can, of course, be argued that people with "immigrant mentalities" worldwide do not join such instruments of the established order, hence, bringing into question and debate the state of mind of the nons in this country, notwithstanding the fact that most are already 3rd-4th generation Malaysians. 

So, can Kit Siang or Karpal .... naah, forget these arthritic dinosaurs, ... now, can Hannah Yeoh or Gobind Singh or Loh Gwo Burne please enlighten the rest of us why you alienise yourselves from the mainstream on such joyous occasions?

Boleh?

Ada logical answer ka? 

The way I see it, most of you nons lack a sense of belonging in this country. You don't quite fit-in beyond your immediate enclaves. This means that you are just pretenders, yup, phony plasticky citizens of convenience. To suit your needs, you'll pretend to be a Malaysian rakyat. You conveniently morph into a "Malaysian" to get your precious MYCards, priceless Malaysian passports, to acquire properties and to partake in your business activities, legal or otherwise. With those needs satiated, you typically revert to your default mode of being perpetually bitching, rabid Malay-hating subversives bad mouthing my Tanah Tumpah Darah at every opportunity in the real and virtual worlds.

Like this can ah?

And to add an ironic twist to this delusional pantomime, you nons are very adept at pretending to be the "mainstream" to a gullible foreign press and unabashedly use the "kami rakyat Malaysia" or "saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia" and "we have a nation to take back" taglines in your subversive campaigns to reforge Malaysia into some sort of utopia for the nons that exists only in the minds of bored middle-aged underemployed identity-challenged lawyers.

Sick.

As I've mentioned in the past, you self-segregating people stop playing team sports -- football and to a large extent, hockey -- to the point where Malays form 99% of players in the Malaysian professional soccer league and the vast majority in the Malaysian Hockey League (MHL). Of course, our national football and hockey teams have become an all-Malay affair nowadays. 


 
Ayoyo aney and baii, you people don't play hockey anymore ah? Merajuk ka? Takpelah, Malaysia's almost all-Malay team beat India and narrowly lost to Pakistan to achieve a first ever Asian Games Silver medal.



Yeah sure, many nons like my friend Robin say that they just couldn't be bothered by the local football or hockey scene. We now have a situation where the typical  Chan Yee How a.k.a. "Jimmy Chan" (with a "Tiffany Tan" -- who wouldn't know a football from other balls -- in tow) or a  borderline obese John Muthiah would foam in the mouth when they talk about Liverpool or Chelsea and the EPL -- knowing even the most obscure of players and dissecting every move and "expertly" analysing team tactics over endless mugs of teh tarik at the kopitiam and mamak stalls until the wee hours of the morning -- when in reality these people have hardly touched a real life soccer ball, let alone kick it and, Tuhan forbid, actually play a competitive football match on the muddy grassfield or partake in organised competition in their schooldays and beyond. 

An ESPN STARSports commentator actually said during one of Malaysia's early round AFF games that Malaysians are among the world's most avid EPL fans BUT have never set foot in a real stadium in their own country. Agreed, but this applies more aptly to the nons. Obviously the ESPN guy has never attended a Selangor or Kedah home game and I suggest you people attend a Kelantan Red Warriors game in Kota Bharu or when Kelantan makes its annual pilgrimage to Bukit Jalil for either the Malaysia Cup or FA Cup final to appreciate true-blooded Malaysian football pride and passion that would match the delirious Garuda Di Dadaku supporters at Jakarta's Gelora Bung Karno.

No people, these are not Merah Putih fans at Gelora Bung Karno. These are Malaysian football fans, yeah ... supporters of  the original merah putih team, Kelantan.  Kelantan's Merah Putih livery (1924) predated Indo's version (1945) by 21 years.
Ngapain loe ciplak donk? Gue protes gimana? 




Patriotism and politics go hand in hand if you want to appeal to the Malay masses. And this is where the nons lost the plot.

You see, the predominant politics of the nons -- as manifested by the Pakatan Rakyat (see the liberal use of "rakyat" by these people) -- is not about patriotic pride or national advancement. Their politics is driven by hate, by huge chips on their shoulders against the imaginary Malay bogeymen and based on personality cults revolving around the DAP Ah Peks and a feisty old Baii fronted by Malay Apologists such as Brother Anwar, acclaimed by his flock as Anugerah Tuhan, God's gift to this country.

The nons created their current state of political confusion -- with alternative fronts and such -- when they began to belief their own rhetoric and propaganda in a weird process of political self-proselytising among the already converted subversives. A cursory glance in political fantasy sites such as the entertaining People's Parliament (haiya .... again self-designating themselves as representing the rakyat, the "people") reveals the skewed mindset of the congregation.  The dozen odd regulars in that blog, blinded by their pathological hatred of the Malays (code named "BN/UMNO" of course), are immersed in a delusional orgy of self-relevance, where they actually think a handful of tak tau cakap Malayu nons -- alienated from grassroot Malaysiana with not even an iota of patriotism -- would determine the future of Malaysian politics from Kuala Perlis to Tumpat to Samarahan to Semporna. These people think Malaysia is a neat little collection of Bandar Utamas or Seri Kembangans where a bunch of kaypoh Ah Sohs and some nothing-better-to-do Indian loyars can influence public opinion and impact the ballot box.

Hence the birth of the MCLM and the Third Force. 

Of course, these new political movements are a godsend to BN, particularly UMNO's wobbly political sidekicks, MCA, Gerakan and MIC. Third Force candidates won't win a single seat, but they would cannibalise enough anti-Malay votes from Pakatan to swing the results to BN's favour in 15-20 marginal seats such as Batu, Kelana Jaya and Wangsa Maju come PRU13.    

I wouldn't be surprised if BN/UMNO makes sure MCLM and the Third Force thrive over the next six months. I can imagine BN/UMNO's cryptic cheer each time the Third Force earmarks yet another loud-mouth Malay-hating lawyer from the fringes of the social cesspool to be the alternative candidate to BN and PR in PRU13.  Of course, Brother Anwar's gang might attempt to co-opt the Third Force by absorbing many of the nominees and make them PR candidates, but these bored, restless, angry menopausal middle-aged men and women -- the ultimate toxic Trojan Horses -- would wreak further havoc inside PKR and DAP with their anarchist streak wrapped in a wickedly condescending "we know what's good for you" demeanour. 

These nons never cease to amaze me with their distorted view of their actual relevance and clout in the real Malaysia. I call this ailment the acute inbred cyber proselytising syndrome, a situation where small groups of anxious people from the lunatic fringes of society actually believe their own mutually reinforcing delusional thoughts to the point where they are convinced they can unilaterally retrofit (as the only "moving part" of Malaysia's complex socio-dynamics while the Malay Muslim majority lies frozen in suspended animation) the predominant societal ecosystem to suit their own parochial, prejudiced-laced ethno-cultural existence. 


Middle-Aged Political Fantasy Trip a.k.a. Third Force meeting. 
Not more than a hundred nons and a sprinkling of their
Malay stooges here actually believed THEY hold the 
key to Malaysia's political future 


This irrational sense of relevance to  Malaysian politics is demonstrated by the occasional candlelight vigils over nothing. You see, whenever a couple dozen nons hold a candlelight vigil to protest something (... usually a long-winded way to spew some pent-up anti-Malay, anti-Muslim sentiment), they would unabashedly proclaim themselves as the voice and face of the Rakyat, as the anointed front that will "take back" this country from some imaginary dark force.

Huh? Take back what from whom? 

Aisey Uncle Aloysius, when was Tanah Melayu and the Borneo states ever in your grasp? Or is this yet another fairytale uttered in SJKC history lessons?

Now let's see, 84% of the electorate for the 1955 federal legislative election were Malay, with Chinese at 11% and Indians 4%. Then we went through the process of dilution of Tanah Melayu's Malay essence with the naturalisation at Merdeka of over a million resident aliens. These pendatangs spawned today's pretend-only Malaysians who now think they have this nation to take back from someone else. Huh? Imagine a tenant of a bilik now wanting to "take back" the whole rumah from the landlord?! 

Haiya Ah Pek and Ah Soh, if there ever was a group that needs to "take back" this country -- after giving away soooo very much of everything -- it would be the Melayus laa! 

Betul ka?

See what happens to a congregation when bombarded repeatedly by the same deviant thoughts by some cyber High Priest? Sick.

Apa ni? 10-20 orang main lilin birthday cake pun sudah 
mengaku jadi wakil seluruh rakyat  Malaysia ka?



Cute little candles are for kiddies' 
birthdays lah Uncle and Auntie ...




Now ... these are my type of candles ........ road flares!
Real patriots guna flares maaah ..... and move aside Che Guevara. Make way for SuperMokh, Mokhtar Dahari ... a true patriot.




Nah, tengok ni.
100,000 orang PATRIOTIK di Bukit Jalil. Macam ni baru lah
boleh  claim wakili seluruh rakyat Malaysia. Betul ka?
Bukan 20 orang main lilin bikin bising tepi longkang. 
Oh, ... lu olang belani pigi sana ka? Gua tunggu.




Anyway, as I've said before, the Third Force and MCLM choirboys (misled by that peculiar malignant narcissist non with a Malay name, ... but that's another story) are nothing more than spoiled rabid Malay haters in need of another playpen after their ill-fated three-year infatuation with the unrepentant crooks and bungling simpletons of PR. Oh yes, these racists are cunning enough to parade pseudo-Malays or Malay-like faces in the forefront to legitimise their agendas. They would court the Melayu Sesat, the lost Malays, plus confused "Malay" half-breeds brought up in a  non-Malay universe by estranged non-Malay parents, which they then unleash into the political scene as convenient DAP-hugging "Malayus."

Naah, these are not the real rakyat. These are not patriots. You wouldn't find them in stadiums to support the Malaysian Super League teams or our  young overachieving Harimau Malaya national team. They don't want to live in harmony with the rest of us, not least the Malay majority. They are not interested in nation building, in forging a unified nation with a shared destiny. No. Malaysia to them is just a comfortable roost for the next leg of their multi-generational social journey towards some ill-defined promised land. 

See what happened to PM Najib's 1 Malaysia logo in PR-controlled Selangor? Banned. The very symbol of Malay concessions -- Najib's foolish recognition of alien cultures and languages to be placed on the same pedestal as Bahasa Melayu and Malay culture in this land called Malaysia -- is itself rejected by the nons themselves, by the very people that should have rejoiced at the government's extra-constitutional means to explicitly accept their lingua-cultural specificities in a policy of pragmatic multiculturalism. 

Yes, even 1 Malaysia they reject. 

Si Melayu Liberal mau kasi apa lagi?


And this rejection of Malay concessions is spearheaded by a cocky little prick named Liu Tian Khiew a.k.a. "Ronnie Liu." Wau lau eh, this "Ronnie Liu" so terrer one laa, ... can overrule the federal government of Malaysia in the richest and most strategic state of the federation. And you nons still have the cheek to play with birthday candles and tell the world there's no democracy in this country?

Like this susah lah.

Lu olang suka main lilin. Lilin itu api. Kita olang pun suka main api. Tapi kita pakai lagi busat punya api. Gua ingat kita dua-dua jangan main-main sama api maaah ... 

So folks, you want to see the real Rakyat?

Follow my footsteps and board the LRT to Bukit Jalil the next time Harimau Malaya plays. See the tens of thousands of young patriots who are the real future of this nation, who will vote and who will propagate over the next two decades to forge the real Malaysia of the next 20-30 years. They are the future  face of Malaysia, not the odd dozen Ah Bengs, Ah Mois, aunties and uncles and the occasional Uncle Raju with a weird fetish for birthday candles who actually believed they represent Mainstream Malaysiana in the face of demographic realities.



VIVA MALAYSIA ........... TANAH TUMPAHNYA DARAHKU



297 comments:

1 – 200 of 297   Newer›   Newest»
Naif said...

woah KM i have to stop u short and say something quick. I watch the final game with my budds at a local popular mamak here in PJ. And let me tell u something, there were Malays, Chinese, Indians, Sikhs and lain2 all brimming with pride as we watch our boys lift the trophy. And sir, let me tell u something else, after the final whistle, this multi-racial crowd in the mamak actually stood up and sang negaraku at the top our lungs! Now i know for a fact that this was going on in virtually all mamak restaurants all over the country maybe not the negaraku part but ppl of all races were watching the game. Most of my friends i know have never felt prouder for our national team. We're all proud of rajagopal, whose son used to be in my old school and a good friend of my brother. A close friend of mine who was super enthusiastic to watch the match and actually bought tickets for us to watch the first leg in BJ is a chinese! So i have to respectfully disagree with u on this one.

Bey said...

Yuppp....Almost all the fans are Malays, seldom seen the nons. Where are they, maybe they watching EPL kot......

Singh Is Kinng said...

Salam YM Kijang Mas,

Abe KM ... wearing turban I am virtually ... but never never never do I belong to the non category ... disgusting really ... HI HI HI

Anonymous said...

Agree with bro Naif. I think quite a number of nons were absolutely proud to be Malaysians and are hoping that local football is revived with this win.
Here is a nice write up by a Malaysian Chinese who sounded proud as ever to be in bukit jalil along with you.

http://football.thestar.com.my/story.asp?file=/2010/12/28/football_latest/7691820&sec=football_latest

I too was in a mamak and i could hear an all chinese table beside me cursing loudly when a Malaysian was fouled and was euphoric every time we scored.

This nons are a glimmer of hope for the nation and they need to help reclaim the country from the enemies within

KijangMas said...

Naif, points noted and appreciated.

As mentioned, I was there in Bukit Jalil and took the long winding LRT to and from the stadium.

Amidst the hundreds of Harimau Malaya fans singing patriotic songs in the LRT ride, I did not see a single non in the various groups. Not even one in the journey that involves two separate lines with many stops from Setiawangsa to Bukit Jalil and back. Two Chinese youths I met at the Masjid Jamek changeover actually asked me if the final was held that day and they regretted taking the jam-packed LRT to their flat in Bdr Tasik Selatan. The other nons -- young men, older folks, etc. -- just sat there stoned-faced while the Malays were singing patriotic songs and waving the Jalur Gemilang. Why?

At the stadium, my party's seating area -- tier 3 on the upper left of the grandstand -- was entirely made up of Malays, except for a lone 50-something Indian gentleman.

Cheering in the comfy surroundings of the neighbourhood mamak is one thing; actually travelling to Bukit Jalil, Dataran Merdeka and KLIA to be part of the merriment, proudly donning our national team jerseys and waving the Jalur Gemilang among thousands of our fellow rakyat are on another plane altogether.

There are literally dozens of Facebook pages dedicated to the national football team, such as this, this, this, this and this.

How come virtually ALL FB pages, blogs and websites supporting Malaysian football -- Harimau Malaya plus the various MSL and Premier League teams -- are set-up by the Melayus? Don't you think the nons should get off the mamak stool and create some as well, at least to complement their cheering at the mamak?

Your Chinese friend who bought tickets and watched the game in Bukit Jalil must be patriotic then. We need more of these people.

1-2% nons out of the total attendance is not good enough. We want to see at least 30% nons in our stadiums -- not at cushy mamak foodfests with bigscreens but in real grimy, sweaty, crowded stadiums -- just like in the Merdeka Tournament days of the 70s and early 80s. We want to see Chinese and Indians up on the terraces hand-in-hand with the Ultras Malaya supporters in our national team games. And next time gather your buddies and go watch a Selangor home game at the impressive Shah Alam stadium.

Go watch replays of Malaysia's goals at Bukit Jalil. Freezeframe the close-ups of celebrating Malaysian supporters. Show us a Chinese or Indian face.

Ada?

I don't want to see only joyous Malay faces on the TV screen whenever we score a goal. It is not truly representative of our country and further underscores the widening chasm between the Malays and the nons.

You and your friends are on the right track. Keep it up. Be vocal. Wave the Malaysian flag (plus the flag of whatever MSL team you support) and go attend matches at the stadium and mingle with the Malay masses out there.

Kenn said...

There are patriotic Malaysians from chinese origin or India origin, cheering together as Sdr Naif said. Some of them were also at the Stadium as noted by Sdr Anon above.

But still nowadays it seem mass gatherings for this sort of event are dominated by the Malaysians of "Malay origin", unlike many many years ago.

Why can't we see some 30% or 40% of the stadium's capacity be filled by the non-Malay? Same with at the Padang Merdeka? Maybe the non-Malay are more comfortable cheering at mamak stalls rather than stadium? Cosy sofa at home perhaps?

Today, the perception of mass gathering for national event not joined by the non-Malays still persist. This is, I think, the "issue".

Maybe because the Sekolah Jenis Kebangsaan teach our youngs to be more "in their own group" at mamak stalls rather than mixing, blending all together in Sekolah Kebangsaan as opposed to Sekolah Vernakular?

BTW - which ethnic form the majority, cheering at the mamak stalls? Was it the non-Malays? Or the Malays still become the majority at this sort of "nationalistic" event, no matter where the event was held?

antusiri said...

when it comes to economic cakes, the malays are saying, "please leave alone the 30%, go and have all you want at the rest, the 70%". Itupun the malays tak dapat nak sentuh habis 30%.

Time nak jadi "Orang Malaysia" kat stadium, apa hal pulak kasi sampai 95% kat orang Melayu?

Itupun kerana harimau bolasepak menyeringai taring dan akhirnya menang. Kalau lembik dan rongak macam dulu? Ada ke yang nak cheering? even kat mamak stall pun?

Aku ingat, kat mamak-mamak stall pun, lebih ramai orang Melayu yang jadi "Orang Malaysia" dari orang china mari atau orang india mari.

Susahlah macam ni, nak cakap bahasa sendiri - mother tongue konon, nak buat hal sendiri, semuanya ini semasa berpijak kaki kat negeri orang. Bukankah maknanya diri sendiri yang kasi label "Pendatang" kalau cam ni?

Anonymous said...

Where are the "Nons"?

In Penang, One "Nons" is telling the other "Nons" to balik India.

In Selangor, One "Nons" is teling Non-"Nons" to investigate how their one "Nons" demised at MACC building.

Another panas berapi from you, KM.



MRSM Kalae Chepo 66/73

KijangMas said...

Bey said:-
"Almost all the fans are Malays, seldom seen the nons. Where are they, maybe they watching EPL kot......"

Yup Bey, must be the EPL.

Not that there's anything wrong with following a foreign league, be it the EPL, Primera Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Major League Soccer, or whatever. In fact, I'm an ardent fan of the EPL as well (since the days of the old League Championship as a 10-yr old), plus NFL and NCAA football and NBA hoops.

BUT it didn't stop me from dropping by the Shah Alam and Sultan Mohd. IV stadiums whenever I'm in the respective cities to watch local league matches.

Malaysian soccer is enjoying a sort of renaissance nowadays, with major media and sponsorship deals for the MSL.

I just hope the filthy bookies don't make a comeback and contaminate the game one more time. Sdr Mat Cendana has rightfully forewarned us all about this menace.

The bookies robbed Malaysia of a generation of very good players in the 1990s. Many were truly gifted rising stars in their early 20s. I've met/spotted a few of this lost generation in real life over the past few yrs. One very accomplished sweeper/libero, captain of an East Coast team, was banished from the game and had to open a tom yam stall in Lembah Keramat to support his family. He could easily have played in the J-League in his prime.

--------

Singh Is Kinng said:-
"Abe KM ... wearing turban I am virtually ... but never never never do I belong to the non category ..."

Salam Singh. You're an honorary non. And a patriot at heart. Thanks for dropping by.

--------

Anon (January 10, 2011 1:17 AM) said:-
"Here is a nice write up by a Malaysian Chinese who sounded proud as ever to be in bukit jalil along with you ... This nons are a glimmer of hope for the nation and they need to help reclaim the country from the enemies within."

Thanks for the link. Excellent perspective from a non. At least there's hope.

The writer, Caleb Khew, said: "I wanted to chant along to the song everyone seemed to know. Sadly, I didn’t know the lyrics. It doesn’t mean I am any less of a fan. I just haven’t been to as many games. I will learn this song."

Well Caleb, here's a start in your journey towards patriotism. Sing this in your car and in the bathroom and with your extended family:-

Inilah barisan kita
Yang ikhlas berjuang
Siap sedia berkorban
Untuk ibu pertiwi

Sebelum kita berjaya
Jangan harap kami pulang
Inilah sumpah pendekar kita
Menuju medan bakti

Andai kata kami gugur semua
Taburlah bunga di atas pusara
Kami mohon doa
Malaysia berjaya

Semboyan telah berbunyi
Menuju medan bakti


Chicken soup for the patriotically-challenged.

Izham said...

Dear Kijang Mas,

Excellent article. Could not agree with you more on the nons non appearance during the final. Funnily enough they could be be seen whenever Man U or Chelsea or any BPL teams come to our shore. And they would even wear the team jerseys instead of the national team jersey! Speaks a lot about their "patriotism". I am not just saying this but I have seen for myself how they would proudly wear the club jerseys and even jeer the national team.

As for the MSL, I do admit to be an ardent fan who would go to the stadium when my favorite team (Penang) play. Although they have not done well, I have not lost faith in them and even my 14 year old son comes along to support so much so that he knows most of the players, coaches and officials.

Here's hoping that the recent success will be a catalyst for the local football to gain support like the good days.

msleepyhead said...

Salam KM,

Wah, killing two birds with one stone as they say, celebrating the Harimau Malaya's victory and hentaming the non-patriots with a single article. Classic KM!

As to your question on the monoethnic football team, we can perhaps go back in time to 2002. (http://www.oocities.com/pendidikmy/berita/fokus87.html) With only 2% of Other Malaysians in SKs.

The current squad must be in their primary years then, and it is no wonder that the national team is of a single race considering the spotting and nurturing of talents back then was done by KBdS at SKs only and not SRJKs. State-level teams also mana ada ambik budak SRJKs punya, diorang masa tu, lebih pentingkan UPSR dari tendang bola kot.

So it's no surprise really, also since you are a fan of the NFL, NBA and college football, boss ada tanya kat depa pasai pa only the African-Americans yang dominate those sports.

Don't really know the answer to your question but maybe legalizing betting may increase attention? Or allowing booze, like in the US.

More digging on SSS related articles:

http://skypin.tripod.com/pendik/pendidik13.html

http://www.negarakita.com/Post-108-Sekolah+Satu+Aliran:+Berita,+Basi+atau+Belenggu+_!

http://foonyew2.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/tarikan-sjkc/

The trend now is more and more Malay parents are letting their children learn Mandarin at an early age, starting from preschool and looking at the numbers, more Malay enrollment in SRJKs in time to come.

Looking at the whole population figure, this might just change the game and it wouldn't be surprising to see an SRJK with a balanced ethnic mix of students or even a Malay majority one.

satD said...

Salam Bro KijangMas

Very Proud monkey was....electrifying watching it live in Jakarta....to see those faces....muka cover line bila penalty tak masuk n Malaysia score....I had to salams so many people.....

Interesting observation....I actually got an email from a FB Buddy stating the same observation out of KL..

This was his message

"Gua tgk geng2 Apek gua Kat fb xde sorak pon? Bleh modal blog Lu ka? Hahah"

I tot interesting observation but I can't go deeper cause I only got a few Nons on my FB Buddy list to validate..

Tumpang lalu sket bro...

Sleepyhead....

Selection is done on many levels...more importantly there's this thing called Majlis Sukan Sekolah Sekolah..in which all schools participate...got so many games la....first one must represent school and then district and then State and then Country......Starting at Under 12, then U 15 and then U 18....there's also dedicated schools for football...for instance during my time VI was the "benchmark" for football excellence...

Then in the Mid 80's (my time oso la) Kementerian Pelajaran did something new...they sent the U-12 players to "selected" schools....eg: my school....we had 5 KL Players, 4 Selangor and 2 Malaysian Player.....

My batch trashed VI 9-1....only problem is these kids tak berapa pandai......so SRP banyak kantoi and got kicked out......

I think now they have this thing called Sekolah Sukan BolaSepak (something like an elite school dedicated for football)

For more readings on Sekolah Sukan Negeri and Malaysia go here

And to understand more on the Selection process for "Elite Players to represent the Country"  go here

So apebenda lu cerita about population of Nons in Sekolah Kebangsaan??

What about Basketball...who do you think dominate the Malaysian Team?

Either the Nons are kaki bangku or prefer Sports that is more suitable for their ethnicity where the School actually promotes it......

Everything is about facilities.....

I give you one example......across the Street from my ol sekolah rendah...  Sekolah Rendah Jalan Pasar in Down town Pudu in Central KL.....is 2 Vernacular Schools....(Kun Min and Chin Woo)

That school will "tumpang and Sewa" our Padang and other facilities......the only thing they got was A Basketball Court.....lu tak percaya tengok sendiri this google map go here

This is their modus operandi........lean and mean....how many operates like that in Malaysia....

A simple googling exercise will prove my point.....get the list of all the Sekolah Harams

Cuba lu tengok how many got football field.....


Anyway bro KijangMas....good to have you back....

Harian Metroll said...

in mamak shops & kopitiams near my house i saw non malays cheering for our country. my non malay neighbor glued to his bigscreen tv.. bising siot, my non malay coworkers ecstatic at our victory at work.

But this kijangmas instead chose to use this glorious occasion to bantai other races just to soothe his own insecurities and fear of non malays.

woii, why mention hockey, but no word on badminton & squash...? two sports where we are #1 in the WORLD, not just asean?

answer is plain obvious: the likes of chong wei & nicol totally smashes the myth of kijangmas's Malay Ubermensch. Somehow every victory by these two must be a bitchslap to the Ketuanan Meleis myth so dearly held by the peoples here.

i bet most of you people were never really pengikut setia skuad negara. only jumped on the bandwagon when we reach semifinals.

to jump on the bandwagon when we are winning is one thing.

to jump on the bandwagon then turn around and attack other Malaysians.. now thats pathetic and hypocrisy.

Harian Metroll said...

satd its all about facility man. i too notice not many sjk school has padang bola. most of their small empty spaces is taken up by basketball or badminton court.

that maybe is why the malaysian chinese are so good at badminton. usah sorak nak takluk asean, dunia pun mereka dah tawan.

KijangMas said...

Hurraaahh ......... a freakzoid from Planet VainFaggot has finally bounced into DN!

Part I

Harian Metroll said:-
"But this kijangmas instead chose to use this glorious occasion to bantai other races just to soothe his own insecurities and fear of non malays."

Hmmm, how did you get here? Did someone leave your cage open? Two billion years of evolution and we have this. Anyway, I love it when these subversive specimens are caught alive for cyber-dissection.

Use some original lines laa dickhead. "Insecurity" and "fear of the nons" are old sudah basi party lines of the long discredited and fast dissipating Malaysia Toddy flock lah.

How can us super-duper privileged Princes of this Bumi feel "insecure" and "fear the nons" when we have 120k troops; 600 MBTs and APCs; 60 Sukhois, MiGs and F/A 18s; 2 Baginda-Class submarines; 130k police; 500k Rela plus a couple million Mat Rempits ready to run amok all over the land.

Sorry to pop your fantasy samdol, but the last time I checked I don't feel insecure or fear pimplish little Ah Bengs with kiddie candles. As for you, my pimped Glock 18 faggoticide would fit perfectly up your butthole to permanently solve your constipated persona.

The only fear I see here is your own. You are the typical Melayu Sesat with no budaya to speak of who has to resort to hating his own race in order to feel accepted by the nons. Yeah folks, you know what I'm talking about; the swarthy type that pretends he's not a Melayu (although the jerawat batu craters on his flat Gombak River mud coloured face are dead giveaways) who would stare at his el cheapo laptop for 5 hours at a Starbucks after buying the RM4.50 coffee-of-the-day and nothing else.

The "fear of the nons" rhetoric thrown by this prick is actually reflective of his own ingrained inferiority complex where he must quickly hantam the Melayus who have some testicular fortitude in order to reaffirm his own ethno-cultural capitulation.

KijangMas said...

Part II

Harian Metroll bitched:-
"... the likes of chong wei & nicol totally smashes the myth of kijangmas's Malay Ubermensch. Somehow every victory by these two must be a bitchslap to the Ketuanan Meleis myth so dearly held by the peoples here."

Huh? We are having a lively discourse on fan patriotism and this Gombak River catfish character throws in Lee Chong Wei and Nicol David. What about them? Of course we know their world beating exploits. You just heard about it ah? And the point is -- again -- who goes out to the indoor stadiums to support these sports heroes? Your lilin carrying friends? No. The vast majority are the Melayus.

Anyway samdol, please lah don't use words you cannot even spell, let alone understand. Haiyah, this loser bitch cannot even write simple English, with sentences ravaged by punctuation errors, and he wants to impress us with some German word he copied in a neo Nazi faggot fetish site. My old buddy K-H Vorennisch would probably categorise this prick as der verdammte Überdummkopf schweinehund.

Anyway schweinehund, what the heck is "Ketuanan Meleis"? What is "Meleis"? Some kind of sambal from the Ulu Cerok village where you came from? Don't tell me you ciplak it from the Indos ... ayoyo, not again. You want more shit thrown at our embassy?

More bitchings:-
"i bet most of you people were never really pengikut setia skuad negara. only jumped on the bandwagon when we reach semifinals."

No samdol, we jumped on the bandwagon only when Safee Sali whacked the ball past Markus Harison for Malaysia's vital away goal that would necessitate the Indos to score 5 goals just to tie the score. Before that we were busy fiddling channels alternating between Spongebob Squarepants and an MGR movie on Astro Thangathirai.

BTW, thanks for trying samdol. I would have liked to see things from your viewpoint but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass. Since we are on the subject, can I borrow your face for a few days? My ass is going on holiday.

Now git!

Anonymous said...

Woohooo ......

Classic KijangMas! I luv it.
Sambel meleis ..... he he he



Cikgu Ann

antupening said...

Have we met a troll who/which is in the state of "kehairanan"?

A "sesat" troll is in "hairan", getting lost in foreign shore.

~Hairan Met Troll

antusiri said...

Well Kijang Mas ... what can you expect from a person who celebrated his birthday with testicle juice?

As you said it KijangMas, very true. A typical Melayu Sesat. A troll!

Troll

–noun
1.
(in Scandinavian folklore) any of a race of supernatural beings, sometimes conceived as giants and sometimes as dwarfs, inhabiting caves or subterranean dwellings.
2.
Slang. a person who lives or sleeps in a park or under a viaduct or bridge, as a bag lady or derelict.

msleepyhead said...

satD,

Thanks for the detailed research on sports talent nurturing.

But it appears that even in Chinese majority Singapore, also the Malays are dominant in the national squad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_national_football_team#Current_squad

http://remgold.blogspot.com/2011/01/singapore-tendang-semua-pemain-squad.html

I'm sure somebody somewhere must have done some research on culture, ethnicity and its influence on sports.

Tommy Yewfigure said...

Wah Bosz, betul ker ni, u naik LRT ka? That must be a first for u in recent time. Dulu I kena escorted to the stadium single file at the train station by mounted polis, lagi hebat…..kekeke.

What lah u calling your critic dickhead & prick, where lah is your decorum standard, up your ass like your head ker? Tsk behaving like a soccer hooligan, mob mentality so unlike your normal coolness….kakaka.

Here’s a Football funny;

Then the other coach got the shock of his life when the team filed on to the ground, dropped their shorts & started wanking? “But u told us to,” said the players. “U said go out & pull yourself together.”…..hahaha

High five & no slapping each others bums, ok?

Unker Tommy

P/S – bolih ciplak this or not?...so original;

“(although the jerawat batu craters on his flat Gombak River mud coloured face are dead giveaways) who would stare at his el cheapo laptop for 5 hours at a Starbucks after buying the RM4.50 coffee-of-the-day and nothing else.” (sic)

Omong said...

Heh heh

KijangMas has not lost his style. Kesian "hairan dia troll".

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead,

Perhaps it is true that to some extent, a certain races are dominant in a certain type of sports e.g. Malays - football and Chinese - badminton.

However that is not the same context as being the fans.

Whatever the case is, I can surely say that I have seen the majority of those that filled in our badminton complex to cheer up for our "Lee Chong Wei" (although cakap B.Melayu pun tak seberapa) are the Malays but sadly the same cannot be said for the chinese in regard to attending in support to our own national football tournament.

HuaYong said...

Just curious, can we draw a similar conclusion with regard to sport like basketball or table tennis? Be it fan or player?

ikhwan said...

basketball and table tennis for similar conclusion?

I dont think so..You see, these two games are different than football in the sense that only a portion of malaysian like them especially chinese.

Football is a lot more special because almost everyone in Asia including Malaysian (Chinese and Malay) love the sport. No body can deny this.

So the question still remain on why is the participation of the "nons" are well below than their population statistical representation in Malaysia (at the sports ground in support to our Malaysian football team)???

HuaYong said...

Thanks for the reply, ikhwan.

Is there any fact to support your claim that Chinese love football? Is number of players a good yardstick? Do you see many Chinese spectators during our inter-state game? Could it be the quality of game doesn’t have enough pull for ‘love’?

My question is can I say someone is not patriotic if the participation of the "nons nons" are well below than their population statistical representation in Malaysia with regards to sport like basketball, by using to the same logic?

Perhaps a survey like what is your favorite team and who you wish to be the winner would be a better benchmark? Don’t you think so?

By the way, words like “special” and “love” doesn’t help to make your statement valid and factual base, it is merely some decoration for the sake of stating your fantastic opinion.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong,

if by fact you means "published documented fact" then my answer would be no. I don't have any.

Some facts I guess is common sense for example that the sun is hot need not any study.

9 out of 10 of my "nons" friends love football. Maybe I should do a survey and let them signs on them.

As i said earlier, you want to use the same logic with basketball?? it is totally invalid. You can deny it but deep down in your heart you know and everybody know that majority Malaysian love football not basketball and this include the chinese.

I didnt say that my point is valid, but the question remains.... unanswered...

HuaYong said...

ikhwan,

I don’t know how I am going to help you here, not sure if below would make it easier for you.

Malay love football, play football, go to ground and support = patriotic

Chinese love basketball, play basketball, go to ground and support = ????

Chinese love football, don’t play football, don’t go to ground and support = not patriotic

Malay don’t love basketball, don’t play basketball, don’t go to ground and support = patriotic?

So your parameter to measure patriotism is love football/basketball or don’t love football/basketball?

A little bit on common sense and sun. Is that a proper method to tell sun is hot and then draw a conclusion out of it? Don’t you think you should find out why sun is hot, how hot is hot, what make the sun hot, where is the sun and since when the sun become hot, or delve deeper, which sun is hottest and which part of the earth are nearest and farthest from the sun at a certain point of time. Or your common sense is extremely common so you normally have no further question ask?

ikhwan said...

:) HuaYong,

You have just help me to clarify my point;

In your own word here:
_________________________________
Chinese love football, don’t play football, don’t go to ground and support.........

Malay love football, play football, go to ground and support.......
_______________________________

Do you see the common theme there?

Yes both of them (Malay and Chinese love football!)

Let me quote myself as an example: I love badminton, I dont play badminton, but I go to the sporting ground and support our Lee Chong Wei! For malaysian sake!

My point is when you love something but somehow couldnt make effort to bring yourself to the sporting ground especially to support our national team in the game that you love...seriously they must be something wrong...Perhaps one of the reason is the unpatriotism attitude or the anti malay sentimens???

Now about the sun...don't twist my logic.... Never did I say that NO further question or research need to be done where the fact is as bright as the daylight!

what I mean was that no further proof is necessary or needed to be presented to the audience where the fact is clear and common sense.

Perhaps you are not the well verse in academic writing....Any fact which is regarded as universally common such as the sun is hot need not be "referred". But if you say that the sun is 3000 degrees celcius, eventhough this also show that the sun is hot, than this is not a universally accepted common fact therefore, it should be referred to with further research and proof!

Trust the above would soften your thick skull a bit

Anonymous said...

Aku cukup menyampah betul tektik tanya soalan2 bodoh buat2 bengap pastu pelan2 kasi masuk jarum halus ni. Dah terang lagi bersuluh tapi lagi mau putar belit ka?

ikhwan saudaraku, toksah buang masa kat mangkok ayon sekor tu.

Anonymous said...

I think you're over-generalizing things saudara KM. I watch the EPL, don't care to watch Malaysian football cause I don't think the quality is good. Of course I love Malaysia and felt proud that we stomped Indonesia, but you wouldn't see myself as being one of the penontons in Bukit Jalil.

Since you follow NCAA football (real football, way better than the EPL), I can't believe Auburn won. :( . What the hell happened to Alabama and LSU and all the big giants? I'm wondering when one of the Midwest teams will take the cake in that...

Adam

Anonymous said...

How bout merdeka day procession? Do you see the nons bring their kids out to watch.
Sure, most non can be seen partying with fireworks.
But that's all - just another opportunity to party.

Biarlah kita jadi polis, askar and gomen. We do all the donkey job. Let the non suck all the juice.

antubahasa said...

So you go cheering the so-called "Malaysian" team in basketball or table tennis court.

What do you hear most?

Chung, ching, kung, king, kong kang, tung, teng..

Apa ini bahasa? Bahasa Malaysia kaaa??

Omong said...

Hey Guys

The first Malaysian Idol was a female Indian Christian, incidentally a minority of the minorities.

Jacklyn Victor was heard envying Taufik Batisah coz he gets to sing English songs.

???????

HuaYong said...

Ikhwan,

I am glad to help those that need help, especially to one that with reading and comprehension deficiency. Now listen, I am claiming that your deductive reasoning is incorrect, and base on logical fallacy. However if you wish to insist to establish such a link, you have the onus of proving your assertion and not repeating the same deduction over and over or leave it to common sense.

1) 9 out of 10 is a probative, you have to substantiate the statistical claim before telling us it is common sense.

2) I already set out the variables and parameters for you. Don’t act lazy, answer it. I don’t mind posting the question again and add in more flavor:
2.1) how you define ‘love’, and at what level?
2.2) why there is less Chinese player?
2.3) does quality of game have or have no pulling aspect?
2.4) any statistical fact to demonstrate that Chinese spectator is less during this game compare to inter-state game?
2.5) why don’t love basketball and don’t go to ground and support not equal to unpatriotic?
2.6) why you need to love badminton in order to support and how this make you patriotic?
2.7) does love F1 and willing to spend hundred or thousand for F1 in Sepang that is without Malaysia team participation have any insinuation of patriotic and unpatriotic?
2.8) there is of course, more.

3) Do you have any sociology and psychology evidence to prove the claim of causality on loving a sport and go to ground and support indicate patriotism?

4) If you wish to present your claim with ‘academic writing’, that is fine with me, though I don’t know yet what ‘academic writing’ has anything to do with our debate, perhaps this is due to your “common” sense at work again. Anyway like I said, if you insist. But please make sure your ‘academic writing’ is not some willy-nilly article that is without causative links, erroneous conclusions, lack of cohesion, inadequate referencing and with outdated sources.

5)‘Thick skull’ meaning information has a hard time getting through brain, for instance, some whiffed on repeatedly the same point regardless of question raise, we may call this slow-witted as well. My elaboration is, again, help you to have a thorough understanding of yourself.

Now go work it out.

PS/ Please tell your friend antubahasa if he doesn’t have the intelligence capacity to understand what is the subject of our debate, he can always learn via reading and not shown his stupidity writing irrelevant remarks.

KijangMas said...

Kenn said:-
"... nowadays it seem mass gatherings for this sort of event are dominated by the Malaysians of "Malay origin", unlike many many years ago. Why can't we see some 30% or 40% of the stadium's capacity be filled by the non-Malay? Same with at the Padang Merdeka? Maybe the non-Malay are more comfortable cheering at mamak stalls rather than stadium? Cosy sofa at home perhaps? Today, the perception of mass gathering for national event not joined by the non-Malays still persist. This is, I think, the 'issue.'"

Salam Kenn. Yes, that is the issue -- the gross under representation of the nons in events supporting local/national sports teams and patriotic causes.

As for mamak stalls, I've had more than my share of watching football matches in these joints.

Look folks, people go to these restaurants and stalls to makan and chit chat. When the ubiquitous big screen shows EPL matches, the patrons will cheer and ooh-aah at the goals and near-misses. If the same big screen happens to show a Malaysia international match -- will be more often now with the renaissance of our soccer fortunes -- the same makan and chit chat crowd will again cheer and ooh-aah at the on-field theatrics.

So what?

Even if the mamak telecast a Scunthorpe Utd vs. Rochdale game, that very same makan and chit chat crowd will still stuff their fat faces with greasy food and make noise as big screen football matches are integral to the mamak (or even tomyam or nasi padang or char kuey tiau) stall experience.

What has makan+cheering+random ooh-aahs at the mamak joint got to do with patriotism?

Nothing!

Many of these mamak frequenting fat slobs would never place their jello asses on the hard plastic or concrete stadium seats and be squeezed among 60-100k others to cheer our national team.

No way.

Many told me privately that it's too much of a hassle lah, traffic jam lah, "I'll never take the LRT" lah, I don't like football lah, ... excuses ad nauseam.

And these are the very people who terasa when you question their patriotism.

To these pampered cissies, I say: Podaaaahhh!!!

--------

antusiri said:-
"Time nak jadi "Orang Malaysia" kat stadium, apa hal pulak kasi sampai 95% kat orang Melayu? Aku ingat, kat mamak-mamak stall pun, lebih ramai orang Melayu yang jadi "Orang Malaysia" dari orang china mari atau orang india mari."

Ya, si bukan Melayu ni memang lenyap dari pandangan di khalayak ramai, samada di stadium atau di mana-mana keraian bertema patriotik.

Mungkin inilah sifat semulajadi
kelompok populasi ini yang kian hari semakin tersisih dari arus sosio-budaya perdana, suatu fenomena yang dicetuskan oleh gejala sekolah vernakular dan kecenderungan mereka untuk berpaksi kepada bahasa dan budaya negara-negara asing seperti China dan India.

Ramai antara mereka kini sudah jadi "alien" di negara sendiri dan mungkin menganggap kehadiran mereka disini sebagai sementara sahaja, hatta patriotisme adalah suatu konsep yang tidak ada makna lagi bagi mereka.

KijangMas said...

msleepyhead said:-
“Wah, killing two birds with one stone as they say, celebrating the Harimau Malaya's victory and hentaming the non-patriots with a single article. Classic KM!”

Hi M.Sleepyhead. Well, actually I wanted to kill three birds with one batu. But I just couldn’t weave-in the free range organically-grown ducks from my Kelantan farm into the storyline.


M.S. also said:-
“So it's no surprise really, also since you are a fan of the NFL, NBA and college football, boss ada tanya kat depa pasai pa only the African-Americans yang dominate those sports.”

For the simple reason the Blacks are better physical specimens than the Whites, Asians, Native Americans and others. Specialised positions such as Running Back and Wide Receiver in American football and Power Forward in basketball are obviously dominated by super-athletic and naturally nimble Blacks. The Quarterback – a “thinking” position and arguably the most crucial part of the offense -- are still dominated by Whites although the Blacks have reinvented the position with the emergence of the throwing and running dual-threat quarterback.

So back to the Malaysian universe, can we then deduce that the Malays are better physical specimens than the nons, hence their dominance in football and hockey from college to professional levels?


M.S. added:-
“Don't really know the answer to your question but maybe legalizing betting may increase attention? Or allowing booze, like in the US."

... And bring in the bookies who, sorry to say, are mostly if not all Chinese?

As for arak, is that part of our football culture? Tonggang whisky and sorak your MSL team? Can anyone here conjure that image at KB’s Sultan Mohd IV or any other Malaysian stadium?

Come on lah M.Sleepyhead, do we need to sogok the nons with judi and arak in order to entice and seduce them to join the Melayus in our stadiums? Perhaps, they should just remain at the mamak joint, and let them cheer and ooh-aah the football games there, indifferent as to whether it is Arsenal or Malaysia playing in the flickering screen.

antubahasa said...

hua yong,

do you have a grain of intelligence to know what this blog DEMINEGARA is all about?

About soccer/sport eh?

Or about chinese who chung cheng ting tung all the way in this bumi Malaysia?

Read Indonesian of chinese ethnic HERE.

Read British of chinese ethnic HERE.

They are indonesians. They are british. They are no longer chinese.

But here, they are chinese tung teng kung keng all the way. So much patriotism huh?

ikhwan said...

Wah HuaYong....

You truly have such an hanourable intention haha....

You want to help me understand myself?

No thanks, it seems to me that you are the one that being delusional and seems to be inflicted with identity issues.

So let us help you.

Typical of high quality "alien" argument, I cant follow your logic because your brain is far more advance than us, the earthling especially the supposedly under IQ Malay?

Ouch so long of list for me to answer?

Why should I answer them? Have you answered any of KM or my single point straightforward question?

I admit that I have underestimated the thickness of your skull! After repetitive answer to the main issue with long substantial article by KM himself, apparently it still hasn't penetrate to the core of your brain.

My point is simple and I would repeat it here:

When you love something but somehow couldnt make effort to bring yourself to the sporting ground especially to support our national team in the game that you love...seriously they must be something wrong...Perhaps one of the reason is the unpatriotism attitude or the anti malay sentimens???

Anonymous said...

Salam KijangMas,

Excuse me for appearing one-tracked minded and going off track as far as the subject of your post is concerned.

But I need to address the wrong perception on SSS and on SRJK attendance held by msleepyhead.

She says "The trend now is more and more Malay parents are letting their children learn Mandarin at an early age, starting from preschool and looking at the numbers, more Malay enrollment in SRJKs in time to come." But she does not produce the figures here and does not prove the "trend". Which, it appears to me, does not exist.

She said, "Looking at the whole population figure, this might just change the game". Until this is substantiated, this appears only a conjecture on her part.

And she said, "it wouldn't be surprising to see an SRJK with a balanced ethnic mix of students or even a Malay majority one." This might even be a mischievous suggestion.

The statistics are available at
http://satusekolahuntuksemua.wordpress.com/2011
/01/13/statistik-pelajar-bumiputera-di-sjk-c/

Penang, the DAP stronghold, has not even 1% Malay children in SRJKs - only about 0.5%. Perak, the Ghee Hins and Hai Sans' "original state" - the Malay state where the Chinese first settled in large numbers - has only 3%. Selangor, the Pakatan Rakyat-ruled state, has only about 4%, Wilayah Persekutuan 4%.

But Sabah has 31% and Sarawak 22%. However, note that these are classified as Bumiputera children and therefore are largely the natives of the two states, rather than Malays, as figures for the other states refer to.

The high Sabah and Sarawak figures increase the total percentage of "Bumiputera children" in SRJKs, but to only 9%.

These do not justify the possibility of even one SRJK having "a balanced ethnic mix of students or even a Malay majority one" at all.

Those reading the figures at the SSS website should note that they are "Bumiputera", rather than Malay, school children figures.

sepadu.

HuaYong said...

Ikhwan “My point is simple and I would repeat it here:”
Dude, we’ve been through this before. And of course I know you are simple and will repeat like my broken MP3 player. Go take a break, my friend.

Antubahasa “do you have a grain of intelligence to know what this blog DEMINEGARA is all about?”
I am new to this blog so I may not be familiar with the norm and the communication protocols especially jargon and slang used. Pardon my ignorance, I have no idea what is “Chung, ching, kung, king, kong kang, tung, teng” and “tung teng kung keng” and therefore can’t grasp your message. If you can be more precise and specific in your writing, I may perhaps alter my assessment.

Sepadu “Until this is substantiated, this appears only a conjecture on her part.”
Well said.

dinturtle said...

Salam Sir KM,

I so happy you write new article after so long time my beard grow. Today i have many time to write because i cannot go to sea.

Just now I drive my boat wish to go fishing but when i reach at the river mouth the wave very high, my front boat go down and my backside boat go up ! Oh Mak Kau ... ( hehe sorry, i melatah here ). Not very healthy if i go fishing today. Afraid not i eat the fish but the fish eat me.

So i cancell my trip today. Same yesterday, and same yesterday yesterday and many yesterdays also same. In 2 months i think i can only go fishing 10 ten days.

What to do ... tomorrow i got to try again, and if cannot, again tomorrow tomorrow. My children many times say their teachers ask for money to pay pig. eh sorry... pibg.

They still wear last year uniform, i only buy them new shoes and stokin. I have to because their shoes look like crocodile. I also buy them new begs because if they use last year begs, when they reach the classroom, they dont have any books to read!

I feel sad i cannot give my children what they want. If can, i dont want to ask help but i have no choice. So i go and see JKKK. He said government can give wang ehsan but only 3 children, RM100 for one children. But i have 5 children.

Before JKKK give the money, i have to listen first he talk about UMNO, and he talk bad about PAS, and he said the money is from UMNO. But i see the face on the money is Agong face not Najib, so i say - Satu Malaysia ! hehehehe

I not alone. My friends more bad, some pawn their old gold, some even borrow ahlong.

Sorry my story very long. My question is where is the changes Najib promise? Same problem every year and more bad because everything more expensive. But my boat same size, the fish also same fish and same size.

Why cant the school be free ? Why give Rosmah RM111 million to spend the already rich children when kampung children suffer to pay pibg ? My wife cry watching tv when i tell her the Permata children singing, play piano Rosmah pay from the money.

I am very sorry to say this, but now i hope my wakil rakyat die. He is good man but he will be more good if he die, because we will have PRK and government will help !

Oh yes, football... i feel proud, i shout with all my friends. I thank you the players for giving us chance to forget our problems for a few hours.

Again very sorry Sir KM, i talk wrong topic. Maybe next time i write again. Thank You Sir !

KijangMas said...

MRSM Kalae Chepo 66/73said:-
"In Penang, One "Nons" is telling the other "Nons" to balik India."

You see, only Malays are racists in the mind of the nons. Only minor ripples are seen when one non insults another non, such as the rantings of a little racist biatch or when a confused SOB insults the Malays and national symbols.

BUT whenever the table is turned against the nons, all hell breaks loose ........ Kit Siang and his Spinster Ah Soh Brigade would throw tantrums in parliament and every non-infested political party and NGO would demand apologies and restitution and whatnot.

Of course, the Najib gomen is dumb enough to actually kow tow to these über racists and punish harassed school teachers while b*stards such as Namewee walk free to wreak more havoc on an already confused social maelstrom.

------

Izham said:-
"Could not agree with you more on the nons non appearance during the final. Funnily enough they could be be seen whenever Man U or Chelsea or any BPL teams come to our shore. And they would even wear the team jerseys instead of the national team jersey! Speaks a lot about their "patriotism". I am not just saying this but I have seen for myself how they would proudly wear the club jerseys and even jeer the national team."

Yup Izham, that's why our football/sports governing body -- be it the FAM or Sports Ministry -- must be more proactive and receptive to social undercurrents.

As a policy, we should never field our national team against club teams irrespective of the pedigree of these clubs. You'll never see England play Bayern Munich or Spain take on Manchester United.

We should field a representative team -- call it "Malaysian Selection" or "MSL All Stars" or "Friends of Shabery Cheek" -- against these foreign club sides. Of course, many chosen in these one-off selections may happen to be current national players.

The kacang-lupakan-kulit Malaysians could then cheer all they want for their foreign clubs and idols and jeer the token local sparring teams to their hearts' content. Malaysian national dignity would not be challenged by these "Malaysians" and players would not be attributed with phantom "national caps" for games that are neither against other national teams nor even recognised by FIFA.

--------

HuaYong said:-
"... can we draw a similar conclusion with regard to sport like basketball or table tennis? Be it fan or player?"

No.

Basketball and ping pong are minor sports in Malaysia, and are dwarfed even by the likes of Badminton and Sepak Takraw in terms of mass participation and spectator interest.

What's the typical turnout for a top level basketball or ping pong game in Malaysia? A few hundred? A couple thousand?

Do you know how many teams play in Malaysia's
National Basketball League
?

20?

15?

12?

No.

How about four? Yes, only four teams compete in the NBL.

Can you name a Malaysian basketball or ping pong player even vaguely known to us? Who?

So lets not compare basketball and table tennis to football and hockey in this country and then try to craft some hypothesis that seeks to repudiate the fact that Malays overwhelmingly dominate mass spectator sports -- as competitors and fans -- in this country.

The facts explicitly demonstrated that sports-based patriotism in this country is synthesized and manifested by the Malays, with negligible representation by the nons.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
___________________________________
Dude, we’ve been through this before. And of course I know you are simple and will repeat like my broken MP3 player. Go take a break, my friend
___________________________________

My comment:

Sometimes SIMPLE is ELEGANT.

Talking about broken MP3, I got one as well. I have tried repetitively to fix it but doesn't seems to work.

I also observed that some broken "alien" in Malaysia like your kind behave the same way like that broken MP3 of mine.

I guess that both of them are lost cause.

One of the simple solution to deal with this would be to throw them away to the rubbish bin!

HuaYong said...

KM, I would say your reply is well put and do make some effort to understand the context, argument were presented in a more relevant and precise manner with better choice of words, such as “sports based patriotism”.

I agree to a certain extent that non Malay “sports based patriotism” is far less as compare to Malay pertaining to sport like football, however, there could be other reasons that cause such phenomenon, for instance (1) passion, culture, environment, historical, development and (2) quality and popularity.

You raise a pertinent question “Can you name a Malaysian basketball or ping pong player even vaguely known to us? Who?” and my frank answer to you is none, but at the same time, I wish to tell you that I know not even a single one football player that win the Suzuki cup. I think the reason is because not many of us are passionate enough towards Malaysia football to the point of achieving your expected level of “sports based patriotism”, partly due to ignorance and for a large part, not interested. Having said that, I believe the passion will revive if there is tremendous improvement of quality and continuous victory from our national team in future tournament, like what happen to our badminton team, or back to our golden era in seventies and earlier eighties when I can recite each and every one of our players name, role, age, strength and even their private life.

Basketball is a relevant analogy when we know the game is played predominantly by Chinese and the question come to mind shall be what efforts have been made to attract other ethnicities to make it a popular sport in Malaysia, rather than associate it with patriotism. And in fact we know basketball is not that dwarf in the international arena as almost most of us know NBA and Michael Jorden. Therefore my point is not to deny your assertion totally but hope we could widen our perspective when drawing conclusion and remarks.

However, I may miscomprehend the agenda and objective of your blog given that antubahasa ask me a weird (solely my opinion) question “do you have a grain of intelligence to know what this blog DEMINEGARA is all about?”

Finally, thanks for sharing. You write well.

PS/ I think below is a good website to learn more about basketball in Malaysia.
http://www.malaysia-basketball.com/

antubahasa said...

hua yong,

I have no idea what is “Chung, ching, kung, king, kong kang, tung, teng” and “tung teng kung keng” and therefore can’t grasp your message.

Exactly the point is!! In Malaysia we speak Bahasa Kebangsaan among us and English with those who do not understand our Bahasa Kebangsaan. (Meaning they are foreigners, NOT MALAYSIANS)

So when one "kung king ting tong chung ching" no Malaysian can grasp what they are talking about, so where is the Understanding? Let alone Tolerance and Acceptance as "mindlessly" drummed up by Najib!

Another thing, when one goes on "kung king ting tong chung ching" in front of people who dont know what he is saying, this is called VERY BIADAP. Try "tung ting chung ching king kong" infront of Americans, Bristishs, Germans in fact all the people in the world (except the "tung ting ching chung" species), you will know what I mean. Here in Malaysia, people are too soft, too bersopan santun, too berlembut when these species "tung ting ching chung king kung" in their presence.

Anonymous said...

antubahasa,

Saya ada hanya satu perkataan untuk hujah hujah Sdr di 4.15 PM -

BAGUS.

Lagi satu -

SOKONG.

Aku.

msleepyhead said...

@sepadu,

Thanks for the accurate figures.

You said..."Until this is substantiated, this appears only a conjecture on her part."

Yes indeed, and until the insinuations in this blog post is substantiated, this appears only a conjecture on KM's part.

No matter how eloquent and well written the always entertaining KM's writing is, the whole article is derived from one person's viewpoint. Disclaimer: this is his blog, he can write whatever he wants.

Great article for getting conversations going though, as did his other masterpieces, that much nobody can't take away from him.

As to my speculations, only time will tell.

HuaYong said...

antubahasa

Though I am very good with Chinese language / Mandarin, I don’t understand a single so called Chinese word from you. I sympathize with your grief and impediment, however, instead of complaint and whining like a bitch, perhaps you should put in some effort to learn the language of your fellow citizen, if incapacity is the excuse, I suggest you do some reading on socio-politic and to understand the reality of our country, that is, we never embark on a assimilation process but uphold diversity as our policy. Generally, assimilation requires the absence of discrimination, absence of prejudice and absence of value power conflicts, which are not the case here in our country. Don’t blame anyone for this, every one of us play a role to shape our country direction. Okay enough lessons, I have no intention to divert into irrelevant topic, I don’t entertain troll, but like I said, I help whoever that needs help.

Back to topic, please show me a single international basketball game that was not held in Greater China where Chinese language is the medium and official language. Otherwise, my judgment stays.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

When we sokong some one, no need to explain. Just one word would do, like I did yesterday at 4.15 PM.

But when you dispute or cast any aspersion on some one's arguments, you jolly well have to explain yourself, my dear.

Justify what you say, put out the counter-arguments, supporting facts, figures, who said what, unto whom, how, when and where.

Then we'll have a discussion, a dialogue, mon a mie.

And not just provide the links, but argue the points out.

It's not helpful to just say let's see - after throwing a spanner in the works. The machine might spew out sharpnels and old nails like a blunderbuss of long ago.

Aku.

Anonymous said...

"please show me a single international basketball game that was not held in Greater China where Chinese language is the medium and official language."

Me no understand what "Greater China" is. Me no heard that spoken before despite having been to many places.

Also me no understand "where Chinese language is the medium and official language."

Me no understand, me ask. No angry angry ho?

Aku.

Anonymous said...

Hi kawan-kawan. Lama tak singgah sini.

Quoting HuaYong - 'I wish to tell you that I know not even a single one football player that win the Suzuki cup'.

Ah? Biar betul. Really? Omigosh. Not even "Apex" the keeper?

We rest our case. HuaYong guilty as charged.



Quote again - '..almost most of us know NBA and Michael Jorden'.

Sapa Michael Jorden? Where got one la AhYong.

There is a retired NBA legend named Michael Jordan.

So this Yong know nuts about football and know nuts about basketball. Maybe he only know his own nuts?


-SJB-
Sakai Janda Baik


n.b. Mana Pakcik Dal?

HuaYong said...

Aku, mon ami,

You reverse your sokong role into a more proactive one? Fine and anyway, I wish not to engage anyone that use word like ‘species’ in such condescending and insulting manner and at the same time, telling me I shouldn’t use my own language while in front of a American, or British or German? Don’t you think we should have some basic self respect and awareness with regards to what is human rights, people rights and language rights? Come on, the colonial era is over long long time ago. My view is that, there is nothing wrong to speak Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Cina while dealing with an American, or British or German. Nothing I construe here as biadap.

Pardon my ignorance, my curiosity again, what this statement “The machine might spew out sharpnels (sic) and old nails like a blunderbuss of long ago.” means pertaining to the context of your comment to msleepyhead?

Back to your question, you may google Greater China as Wikipedia have a detail elaboration, but to me, I am just lazy to write China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and therefore cut it short, sorry for that. Medium and official language mean language use to make announcement, language exchange between team, referee and officer, but shall exclude language communicated between players and their coach. Hope it clarify.

By the way, having been to many places is irrelevant, no angry, okay, me no angry, promise.

kuman said...

antubahasa,

Yes I agree it's very biadap indeed for someone to go ching chong keng kong in front of non- ching-chong-kheng-khong-speaking people. These people appear to be so ignorant of this basic communication etiquette, that they make a complete fool of themselves in professional engagements. Once I was in a meeting with a bunch of Europeans, West Asians, a Malaysian chinese and Chinese chinese. After the Chinese dude delivered his stuff, he was asked a series of questions one of which he didn't seem to get the gist of it. Suddenly the Malaysian Ah Beng took it upon himself to translate the question and went ching chong cheng chong to the Chinese dude, oblivious to the looks of utter disbelief by the rest of us. Luckily the Chinese dude, however, had the courtesy to maintain his reply in English much to the embarrassment of the stupid Ah Beng. So there you go folks, once an ahbeng always an ahbeng.

Anonymous said...

Quote:
So lets not compare basketball and table tennis to football and hockey in this country and then try to craft some hypothesis that seeks to repudiate the fact that Malays overwhelmingly dominate mass spectator sports -- as competitors and fans -- in this country.

The facts explicitly demonstrated that sports-based patriotism in this country is synthesized and manifested by the Malays, with negligible representation by the nons.



I will have to strongly disagree here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malaysian_badminton_players
http://www.bam.org.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=111


Badminton is heavily dominated by nons, mostly Malaysian Chinese.

-TJ

satD said...

Or maybe there's a special league for Malaysian Chinese?

My initial search indicate that this league have been around since the 50's

Vernacular Football?

Saiko siut......

The question remains....why the lack of active participation...

Football is a communal sport...

as a proxy observation take a look around the futsal arena in town...

do u see many multi racial teams?

Now try aggregating that on a national level....

ikhwan said...

kuman and antubahasa,

I absolutely agree with you both.

FYI,

Your sentiment and mine has also been echoed by the Aussie.

Yesterday, I read in MX newspaper, Sydney (18/01/2011)readers comment section; a white Aussie complaining how rude it is a foreigners to speak among themselves in foreign languages (other than English) in front of him in Australia.

To HuaYong,

Don't pretend to be dumb. By "ching-chong-kheng-khong", he meant that any Malaysians that doesn't speak Bahasa Malaysia which include the Bahasa of Negara China (Mandarin).

Perhaps you would understand this "alien" language:

"Gun Kai, Da Bien, Sa Bi, Ni zui le!"

No hard feeling eh

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

Me oso no understand your "You reverse your sokong role into a more proactive one?" But will not argue that one out.

It's decency, etiquette, internationally accepted norm of behaviour, m'boy.

In BM, it's plain and simple "adab". Not doing that entitles a person the title "biadab". It may not mean much to those unschooled in the art of decent living. It may cause Jebat to draw.

You see, my dear chap, people usually respect others around them. There is the expression "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". So, one doesn't chong cheng ting kong among Romans. Or among Malaysians where Bahasa Malaysia is the lingua franca. And the Bahasa stated as Article 152 of the Constitution.

What "self respect and awareness with regards to what is human rights, people rights and language rights" are you talk about, man? Others' rights you no care, ah. The expectations of loyalty to the country based on the Constitution tak kira, ha?

The "sharpnels (sic) and old nails like a blunderbuss of long ago” refers to sharp rebuke, counter arguments, words of reprimand, etc, mon ami.

My advice to you is to be careful when dealing with Wikipedia. It cannot be relied upon as the gospel truth. Remember, it can be written by anybody, any time, any place. Some also use it to change the history of Malaysia. One bloke wrote that the Malays were responsible for the Larut Wars of the 19th Century. The fellow must have his head in between his legs and under his tail when writing that.

I will not argue with your idea of a Nanyang. Suffice to say that DAP Lim Guan's naming of a public facility in Penang after Sun Yat Sen made him Sun Yat Sen First and China Second. Completely contradicting the the claim of being Malaysian First Chinese Second. Making them an untrusted lot.

Who says "having been to many places is irrelevant", except you. Those who choose to alienate themselves by going to Chinese schools, not being in mainstream Malaysiana (to quote KM's words), become misfits when they do not even know such thing as decency to speak in the relevant international language when in a foreign country, or in Bahasa Malaysia when in Malaysia, except of course in private, meaning not heard by others.

Join mainstream Malaysiana lah, old boy. Hope you'll accept such expressions as old chap, old boy etc as a manner of speaking and not intended to demean you. Going places and mixing around usually make people understand that.

antubahasa said...

I sympathize with your grief and impediment, however, instead of complaint and whining like a bitch, perhaps you should put in some effort to learn the language of your fellow citizen, if incapacity is the excuse, I suggest you do some reading on socio-politic and to understand the reality of our country, that is, we never embark on a assimilation process but uphold diversity as our policy

This is the typical gluee stuff contained in a "Pendatang" brain. They BITCH around in this land expecting everybody to understand them when they spoke the official language of THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF COMMUNIST CHINA. Well, we are can respect the chinese of the People of Communist China as we respect other nationals. But for a bitch, bitching about the great Communist China, speaking their language and expect other people to understand it, pays no respect toward Bahasa Kebangsaan, AND BITCHING around they they are "Malaysians"?????!!

Well one thing hua yong, YOU ARE NOT MY FELLOW CITIZEN!!! You are chinese!!!

People learn other languages. Nothing wrong with that. But when people do not uphold the national language they claim to be citizen, but instead uphold other foreign language, THAT IS A BITCH.

Sounds a BITCH has been hit a by a putong kayu to me. There the BITCH goes, "kung! kung! kung!" shitting all around.

antubahasa said...

My fellow citizens, aku dan kuman, dan yang lain-lain di sini (KECUALI orang china sesat hua yong),

Begitulah mentaliti "pendatang". Macam anjing betina kurap lagi sesat di dalam perkarangan rumah orang. Bila kena baling dengan puntung kayu, maka menyalaklah dia, meroyan, terberak sana sini.

Dia tidak mahu kepada bahasa kebangsaan negara ini, malah mahu orang lain faham bahasa yang dia sanjung, iaitu bahasa negara China komunis.

That is really a Pendatang BITCH!

~ ha! ha! ha! org mulakan dgn bahasa yang indah, kita pun balas dengan bahasa yang indah juga!

Semerah Padi said...

Salam Sejahtera KM dan pengunjung,

Sebuah artikel yang tepat yang dipaparkan oleh Sdr. Kenn:-

Between Ah Beng & Danny Wong

Seringkali apabila kita berhujah bahawa "Bahasa itu jiwa bangsa", "bahasa itu lambang negara", "bahasa itu identiti kita" dan lain-lain lagi, maka para "Pendatang" tegar akan mula menggunakan hujah basi mereka menyalahkan "asilimisasi" dan mereka akan tuding jari selalunya ke arah Indonesia. Padahal di mana-mana jua di dunia ini akan ada peruntukan penggunaan bahasa kebangsaan masing-masing dalam akta, undang-undang dan perlembagaan negara masing-masing.

Hanya kita di Malaysia ini agak berlembut dalam hal penguatkuasaan akta bahasa dan Perkara 152 Perlembagaan negara.

Mungkin telah sampai masanya, kita orang-orang Melayu belajar perangai KURANG AJAR dan BIADAP pendatang-pendatang ini, supaya dapat kita "deal" dgn mereka-mereka ini tanpa lemah lembut sopan santun lagi.

Mereka ini tidak pernah mengenal erti puas, kalau dibiarkan sejengkal mereka akan gelojoh mengaut sehasta. Ini suatu pengajaran yang perlu dihayati oleh pemimpin-pemimpn kini yang amat lembik dan dayus, tahu hanya melutut sepanjang masa. Seperti negara ini tiada undang-undang dan Perlembagaan.

"DI MANA BUMI DIPIJAK, DI SITU LANGIT DI JUNJUNG"

antusiri said...

Hua Yong said to antubahasa,

..perhaps you should put in some effort to learn the language of your fellow citizen


antubahasa,

Are you a China Communist citizen? Your national language is Mandarin, isn't it? We are Malaysians here. Bahasa Malaysia ia our national language.

hua yong also said,

telling me I shouldn’t use my own language while in front of a American, or British or German? Don’t you think we should have some basic self respect and awareness with regards to what is human rights, people rights and language rights?

I'm sorry. I really don't get you. It is your right to speak Mandarin to American, British or German? What would they say about it, especially when you set foot in their soils? You have your right to insist Mandarin when you are in China especially when you are chinese (a citizen of China). But I thought people should be proud of their national language not to the extent "forcing" your own national language in foreign soils? I think the Americans would dump you straight in the drain the moment you speak chinese in front of them and in their soil. The American is governed by their own set of laws which define their citizenship's right. One of them, like any other countries in the world, is the use of National Language. It is Human Rights to respect each other national language. It is BEASTLY right, I supposed, to speak Mandarin to British, American, German and Malaysians when you set foot in their soils. Don't you think?

You speak a lot here about Greater China. Are you doing business here in Malaysia?


~~~ Ride On !!!

NJ said...

Salam Sejahtera KM dan sidang DN sekelian,

Ingin saya buat sedikit perumpamaan.

SEGELAS AIR TEH.

Di dalam gelas itu terdapat 3 komponen utama.

1. Air
2. Daun teh
3. Susu

oklah, kita tambah sedikit Gula.

Air yang MENERIMA daun teh, susu dan gula di kacau sebati di dalam gelas sehinggalah ujud IDENTITI air TEH. Setelah sebati, di manakah teh, susu dan gula tadi? Telah larut semuanya di dalam air. Hilangkah mereka?

Tidak.

Nama teh tetap ada. Air teh (bukan Teh 'O') is understood bermakna teh susu.

Apakah terasnya?

AIR untuk diminum yang berbangsa TEH TARIK.

Situasi akhir-akhir ini yang ada di dalam negara kita nampaknya susu yang KUNING hendak remain jadi susu kuning. Pejal di dasar gelas. Dauh teh yang gelap warna hendak remain jadi daun teh gelap terapung di atas permukaan air. Kedua-duanya bila dikacau dgn sudu, degil tidak mahu "blend" dengan bahan teras, iaitu AIR yang jernih yang sentiasa menerima kehadiran teh dan susu ini.

So apakah identiti AIR yang jernih dalam gelas ini, di mana di bawah gelas susu pejal yang kuning, di permukaan atas daun-daun teh yang gelap terapung?

Suatu bangsa air minuman kah ini?

Ataupun kita perlu, "SHAKERS" goncang susu dan teh in dengan kuat, supaya AIR TEH akhirnya dapat terhasil jua?

Negara ini terasnya "Melayu". Melayu, bagi saya dalam hal ini, bermakna orang Melayu, Bumiputera dan orang asli. Apabila mereka ini menerima kehadiran orang cina dan india, maka Tanah Melayu pun bertukar menjadi Malaysia (kerana kita semua mahu minum AIR TEH)

Teras negara ini adalah Melayu yang diserikan oleh cina dan india (umumnya). Malaysia bukan lagi Melayu hakiki, tetapi tentu sekali Malaysia itu BUKAN cina atau india.

Di sini Malaysia. Di sana India dan China. Pilihlah tempat masing-masing yang secocok dengan citarasa sendiri.

Kenn said...

I'd like to quote the paragraph what Danny Wong has said:-

"I'm British, not Chinese. I don't just mean in terms of my passport or my birthplace, I mean that my values, culture, and family are British. I believe in the virtues of fair play, civility, the Queen, and afternoon tea, not connections, filial piety, banquets, and the unity of the nation."

(Full article is HERE)

Well Hua Yong, can you same the same thing here? Like Danny Wong said it?

Can you say "I AM MALAYSIAN?" and embrace the MALAYsian values, cultures etc? Prominently, in this case, is the Bahasa Malaysia, not Mandarin.

Disregard my question if you are a China Nationals. I am quite confused here whether you are a Malaysian or a Chinese here. Sorry.

Hey everyone,

Why the fuss about "Indonesian assimilation"? Why no fuss about "British assimilation" in the case of Danny Wong too?

Tenang Lautan Biru said...

Mohon promosikan blog kami untuk PRK Tenang.

http://tenangprk.blogspot.com/

Terima kasih.

HuaYong said...

Oh, this SJC know well who Michael Jordan is and unlike me, have no difficulty at all to spell his name correctly, congratulation. Hope there is more and more Malaysian like him, who love and supports every form of sport, we need more people like him.

I don’t know who Apex is, this has nothing to do with nuts, and I am not here to win argument, just to point out some misleading notion. I will do more to know every one of our national team player.

Kuman, if meetings were conducted here in Malaysia, don’t you think the communication language shall be Bahasa Malaysia? We are just doing a favor to our guest who can’t speak or don’t bother to learn our language, what this has to do with communication etiquette? They shall be grateful for what we did for them. Or you are one hypocritical double talk that apply different standard to different people? Btw, do you have any idea what the United Nations six official languages are? And since you like name calling, shall I call you once a serf always a serf?

kuman said...

Mangkok hayon (HuaYong),

Wah, why you so terasa one maa? You said you'll never get angry one maa? Are you related to the Ah Beng in my story? Or somehow that Ah Beng reminds you of your own biadap-ness?

The meeting I mentioned was conducted in international business setting with English as the official language because the attendees, as I mentioned, comprised of Europeans and West Asians. They too are non-native English speakers and understandably had noticeable difficulties in expressing themselves clearly in English. But I didn't see them go ching chong cheng chong like your stupid little brother AhBeng. This has every little bit to to with professional business conduct; only local workshop Ahbeng like you wont bother with its fine details. The crude barbaric lifestyle is also the very reason why your kind talk loudly over your cheap bling bling handphones, cut queues, spit and piss everywhere.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

Visitors to this country are not expected to know the National Language. Permanent residents, even though not nationals, are expected to know. At least out of courtesy and out of gratitude for the granting of the permanent stay status.

But of course we know that gratitude is a scarce commodity even among many of those who claim to be nationals of this country.

So, those foreigners attending meetings in this country can speak in an acceptable international language. English is acceptable because it is a second language in this country. And it has nothing to do with "doing a favor to our guest".

And Mandarin is still out even in meetings in this country unless the participants and attendees are all Chinese.

I don't know if there's such a thing as "six official languages" of the United Nations. There are about 180 member countries of the UN. I believe all the National Languages of member countries may be spoken, for example, at the United Nations General Assembly, and simultaneous translations are made available for representatives of member countries who choose to speak in their National Language. Even Swahili, if that's the National Language of the relevant African state.

You see, even at the United Nations they respect National Languages. No such thing as the "language spoken by 1.2 billion people" being more important than that spoken by just 10 million people.

So, got to respect Bahasa Malaysia which has been stated in the Constitution as the National Language of this country. In public i.e within hearing distance of others, BM must be spoken. No two-way about it.

Btw, the comment at 6.29 AM addressed to you is by me - forgot to put my nic, lah.

Aku.

HuaYong said...

I presume anon 6.29 is aku.

First of all, can you please reply to what I wrote and not what you hope I would write? Did I ever say we shall not use BM to be the communication language among Malaysian? Hmm…another one with reading and comprehension deficiency? Even talk about constitution? Did I ask you to rely fully on Wikipedia, didn’t I mention there is detail elaboration and further clarify why I use the term Greater China? And I have no idea what Nanyang and DAP have to do with our discussion.

Re-read your lecture “Justify what you say, put out the counter-arguments, supporting facts, figures, who said what, unto whom, how, when and where. Then we'll have a discussion, a dialogue.” and read again your latest post make you look funnier than I thought earlier, how having been to many place could become a relevant justification? Can I justify my argument with “I have 2 PhD and read 20 books a day”?

mon ami, go get a grip if you can’t argue with facts. Just a friendly suggestion, no angry, promise? Me very happy, no angry.


Antusiri “The American is governed by their own set of laws which define their citizenship's right. One of them, like any other countries in the world, is the use of National Language.” You want to compare? Fine. Sorry I don’t know about America and National Language, show me the link first.

Kenn, will reply you later if time permit.

The rest? Not worth my time.

KijangMas said...

satD (January 10, 2011 9:23 PM) said:-
"Interesting observation....I actually got an email from a FB Buddy stating the same observation out of KL.."

Salam Bro satD. Yes, the empirical and anecdotal evidence from numerous sources overwhelmingly indicate the dire lack of explicit, demonstrable patriotism by the nons, bar the few and far between of course.

The recent AFF victory saga was just the latest and more obvious manifestation of this phenomenon.

The denial mode exhibited by the nons in this discussion is quite understandable. Obviously, being questioned about one's patriotism due to the behavioral inclinations of one's population group is not very palatable.

But instead of searching for the ways and means to rectify their patriotic deficiencies, the nons here spin convoluted phrases and fuzzy concepts that only succeeded in reinforcing the thesis of this post.


satD (January 19, 2011 2:06 AM) said:-
"Or maybe there's a special league for Malaysian Chinese? ... this league have been around since the 50's ... Vernacular Football?

Ha ha ... yup Bro, vernacular football. And we also have vernacular makan shops, vernacular TV channels, vernacular newspapers, vernacular radio stations, vernacular blogs .... all building towards a vernacular nation within a nation here, thus fulfilling the multi-nation state dream of Yap Sin Tian, the Dong Zong high priest of the Chinese Segregationist movement.


Bro satD again:-
"The question remains....why the lack of active participation... Football is a communal sport... as a proxy observation take a look around the futsal arena in town... do u see many multi racial teams? Now try aggregating that on a national level...."

Football is but a sampling of Malaysia's prevailing social flavour, where the nons are determined to alienise themselves from the mainstream ... and they have succeeded in this endeavour.

The Malays and the nons have never been this far apart -- in socio-political and ethno-cultural plus linguistic issues -- since Merdeka. We cannot even share a common joke anymore. Reasonably capable nons such as HuaYong here are symptomatic of this self-imposed affliction. They'll twist and turn and slither here and there to extricate themselves from the basic question, i.e., "why are you not part of us?"

Of course, as long as they are able to survive and thrive in their self-sustaining, insulated lives in their lingua-cultural enclaves, they'll be fine. But this "borderless" world that they so proudly shout about begins right here in Malaysia.

No community will prevail in their own closed cocoon, not least one with a rapidly dwindling birthrate and in danger of being swarmed by the natives within 3-4 decades. Penang itself is now a Malay plurality state, and the political repercussions there will be interesting over the next decade.

How do we go forward? It's up to the nons themselves. If they feel it is still worthwhile to plant roots here and move forward with the majority, then they will evolve a reasonable level of patriotism to complement their status as fellow warganegaras. Otherwise, nature takes its own course and we all move on with or without the nons.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

It now appears to be difficult to communicate wih you.

You said, “how having been to many place could become a relevant justification?” But surely you have heard the expression “travel broadens the mind”, “travel increases knowledge”, etc. Surely it can justify the argument that, for example, one would have known that the words “bloody”, “bloke”, “old chap” etc are commonly used in England by one’s travels there, whereas those words may appear rude to those who have had no social intercourse with the English.

And you asked me to “Re-read your lecture “Justify what you say, put out the counter-arguments, supporting facts, figures, who said what, unto whom, how, when and where. Then we'll have a discussion, a dialogue.” My dear chap, I was referring to msleepyhead one of whose comments was casting aspersions on what KijangMas wrote, without substantiation or counter-arguments.

What I said were perfectly justified, old boy. Read her comments again. Then think and be honest to yourself: is it you or me having the problem of comprehension?

I shudder at the thought that you “have 2 PhD and read 20 books a day”! Now, now, don’t you start saying I’m putting words into your mouth. You wrote those words and I’m just expressing my disbelief that I’m arguing with some one using that kind of argument.

You asked me to reply to “what I wrote and not what you hope I would write”. You didn’t say what it was that you wrote that you asked me to reply. In any case, my comment was related to your statement, “.. there is nothing wrong to speak Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Cina while dealing with an American, or British or German.” There’s a lot wrong, old boy. It is not done in civilized societies.

In the first place, the fellows might not understand what you say and they are not obliged to know Bahasa Cina when abroad, unless in mainland China.

And I was relating it to Malaysia where speaking Bahasa Cina in the presence of others is also wrong because the Constitution says Bahasa Malaysia is the National Language. And you tried to criticise my bringing the Constitution into the discussion. Mana boleh?

I thought of continuing this discussion, arguing on the other points you raised, but now wonder if I should continue. It may not be a problem of language or semantics between us but perhaps of mind set. If it is the latter, it may not be worth the while. You being set on your views about the use of your own language in front of others and me being set on my views that “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” and in Malaysia use Bahasa Malaysia except in circumstances already explained.

Aku.

HuaYong said...

Kenn

“Disregard my question if you are a China Nationals. I am quite confused here whether you are a Malaysian or a Chinese here. Sorry.”

You either have a poor understanding of context or you are being sarcastic. Whatever it is, I am here to help you. :) The term ‘Chinese’ does not has a fixed meaning, it is a fluid concept that may change depending on context. Generally, ‘Chinese’ has three different meaning 1) citizen of PRC and 2) basis of race and bloodline 3) understanding of Chinese way of life, or culture. I personally think this is not much difference from the concept of ‘Malay’. Both you and Danial confused or mixed up the concept of identity/nationality and race/ethnic. I don’t see problem to tell I am Malaysian (citizen) and I am Chinese (race and bloodline).

Honestly I find your stance and viewpoint with regards to Danial is confusing. Danial position is clear on both countries he mentioned while you pick whatever that suit your argument. You are a naughty boy.

HuaYong said...

Aku, seem like your 4.53 post turn reasonable and sensible and less out the insulting tune, I think I am obliged to reply. Sorry if I sound rude.

Please re-read “he was asked a series of questions one of which he didn't seem to get the gist of it.” Is that such a big deal if we help him out by doing a little translation? I never said we shall use Mandarin to conduct meeting.

The reason I mention UN and language is to convey message that most people in the world have utmost respect to any national language, they are not so bitchy to calling others as biadap just because some cannot understand / speak fluently a deemed common language.

Hope my point help clarify.

HuaYong said...

Aku,

I am perhaps a bit sensitive towards one that likes to advertise himself. To me, travelling to many places is unnecessary detail which has nothing whatsoever to do with topic under discussion. However, if you want to insist it is relevant, I leave it to you.

All my contention pertaining to language is between foreigner and Malaysian, by referring back to Kuman comments. I haven’t touch on anything among Malaysian, I hope you spare me the space and limit our discussion to an agreed scope.

I think “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” will depend on what Romans do, I am not fully subscribes to this norm yet. Being working my life mostly in foreign firm, I reckon your so called civilized society have everything to do with outdated mindset and superiority sense. Hence you are right in your perception towards my view and you may discontinue the discussion.

Having said that, I think you deserve my respect on many things you wrote.

HuaYong said...

“They'll twist and turn and slither here and there to extricate themselves from the basic question, i.e., "why are you not part of us?"”

The number 1 reason people decide on one product over another is emotional, not logical. People make emotional decisions, then try to justify those decisions using logic and reasoning. Thus they appear to have decided “logically” but they did nothing of the sort. Welcome to the wonderful world of negotiation, where this concept is taught in every negotiating class you’ll ever take. So when you rally support for a policy by appealing to nationalistic urges, you also encourage an equal and opposite nationalistic response on the opposite side. That’s human nature. Is that a winning strategy? Is that the best way to achieve your goal? I think not.

So KM, you can continue with your tit for tat masterpiece. The question is who will buy it? At least i am here to understand your stance and perspective, and to see where and what is our common values.

naif said...

I was waiting for someone to mention about the Malaysian Chinese football league. I think we should we should make it unconstitutional. brown v board of education style

Anonymous said...

HuaYong

I need to rebut some of the points you put out.

Your comment at 12.07 AM –

It’s perception, m’boy, perception. Interpretation and intent. Now you say my “4.53 post reasonable and sensible and less out the insulting tune”, implying the opposite in the previous ones. Your intent now appears insulting and you are rude there.

You talk about being “sensitive towards one that likes to advertise himself” when one mentions about going places to show that it helps understand the issues being discussed. In that case then people can also interpret your statement “Being working my life mostly in foreign firm” as also advertising yourself. You are also the kind who cakap tak serupa bikin, aren’t you? Et tu brute? Now that’s Shakespeare and it’s up to you how to interprete it.

You did not mention “UN and language to convey message that most people in the world have utmost respect to any national language”. Instead you asked Kuman tersely “do you have any idea what the United Nations six official languages are?” Now that you have interpreted others’ comments with questionable intent, I’ll interpret that question as an attempt to show that Mandarin is included in those so-called “six official languages” and that it is “superior” to many other languages.

Yet you imply people who speak for decency when talking in the presence of others as having “outdated mindset and superiority sense”. What are you talk, man? Now you can interprete what I have just said any way you like.

Aku.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

You talk about helping others who need help, sounding high and mighty. It’s fine if you are really helping and let’s see if you really are, or would.

You resent anyone “calling others as biadap just because some cannot understand / speak fluently a deemed common language.” The problem is you do not understand, yet want to make a stand, and accuse people all sorts.

The Kamus Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka says


Adab = budi bahasa, budi pekerti yang halus, sopan kesopanan

Biadab = 1. tidak ada budi bahasa, tidak beradat; 2. Tidak bertamaddun, belum maju.

Adat = 1. peraturan yang lazim dipakai sejak dulu kala, hokum, lembaga 2. Cara yang sudah menjadi kebiasaan, sifat, kebiasaan

I don’t have to explain any more, do I?

Those who used the word “biadab” up there, and those who support it (including yous truly), know what it means and used it aptly. Those who don’t understand need to check it up before making a stand and saying bad about others. Otherwise it only smacks of guilt conscience.

See, I have helped others (you) by digging the meaning of the word to resolve the tiff. Hopefully it does.

Btw, what "deemed common language" are you talk, Mister? But "never the mind", as my friend who has a high command of English sometimes says. If necessary, let others take this up with you after you have clarified.

Aku.

Kenn said...

Hua Yong,

I pretty much can make my own perception of what type of person you are from the few comments you posted here.

One thing, if you don't like name-calling, don't start it! It is a mirror effect.

I don't think you need to lecture people here on what "Chinese" is.

I don't think people have much issue with chinese nationals as they do with other nationals. They are certain so called "chinese", especially when they are NOT chinese nationals, but living elsewhere claiming the citizenship, yet do not even have an iota of nationalism in them. Their always uphold their "ancestral" identity and values everywhere they are YET they don't want to go back to their ancestral land. They dont want to adapt to local values, custom and identity. (It is okay if they are just foreigners NOT citizens) That is why they become so furious toward their ancestral comrades who have become Indonesians, Thais (you know that Thaksin is "chinese"?). They hate Dr. Ridhuan Tee. etc

But the thing is, this type of "chinese" disturb the harmony of the country where ever they live in. An example: PNG

Look what Jackie Chan has to say about it. He was lambasted by "this kind of chinese" soon after the statement.

So, the act tearing apart the PASSPORT (mind you the passport has the words of YDP Agong in it), in a way, trying to "FORCE" the british to accept them? What kind of behaviour is this? So much patriotic huh, tearing apart the passports? Read also HERE and HERE

Well, see this video. Listen toward the end of it during "confession" time. This is the typical mentality of "chinese" which to me, no country want to accept them. They better go back to their ancestral land, less they disturb the peace and harmony of the locals when they clearly "worship" their ancestry, short of going back to their ancestral land. Remember Thaksin, remember INdonesians, remember Dr. Ridhuan Tee etc.

Having said all these, I think I will heed an advice by a commentator here, "DON'T WASTE MY TIME".

Thank you.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
___________________________________
The number 1 reason people decide on one product over another is emotional, not logical. People make emotional decisions, then try to justify those decisions using logic and reasoning.
___________________________________

My comment:

Yeah Hua Yong,

You have just describe yourself there. P/s dont use general form; people, you should have use you yourself.

I have a complete and clear picture of you and your kind now.

No wonder your arguments has always been full of denial, twisting and turning etc etc.

You were thinking emotionally and you tried to force logic and reasoning to your emotional based opinion.

While we on the other hand look at the facts, reasoning and logic and only then formulate our opinion but unfortunately you have took it the other way round.

The truth will prevails.....

Ms. Lush Kiu Mo said...

Aiseh Hua Yong. You talk too much lah.

Talk, talk, talk.

You have not stepped foot out of Malaysia, but you talk like you are a man of the world and are drawing from your life experiences. I bet you watch too much Wah Lai Toi maah.

You are a sports illiterate and cannot even name a single Malaysian football or basketball or hockey or table tennis or bowling or sepak takraw or tennis player, but you use weird sports examples in your talk.

You cannot even spell Michael Jordan correctly. And BTW this dude is long retired lah. Do you mention Kevin Keegan when you talk about today's football? Oh, don't bother. Hua Yong probably has no idea who the hell is Kevin Keegan.

You are an obvious social outcast, but you continue talking.

But the more you talk, the more you reveal your defects. You are damaged goods.

You are a living example of what is wrong with vernacular schools and the mindset of the Chinese in this country.

We shouldn't waste time with this confirmed alien lah. He cannot fit in here or elsewhere in Malaysia.

As KM said, nature will run its course and I say aliens like Hua Yong ("I am very good with Chinese language/Mandarin") will do what's best for his alien self and return to "Greater China".

Cherio alien. Turn off the lights on your way out.

antusiri said...

Muslims act as human shields for Christians

Dalia Mustafa said this:-

"This was an attack on Egypt as a whole, and I am standing with the Copts because the only way things will change in this country is if we come together."

Now imagine there was an attack on Malaysia. And there was hua yong and ah beng ah beng yang sewaktu dengannya.

Next thing you hear from hua yong and ah bengs is (like antubahasa put it)

"kung king ching chung tung teng"

Quiz of the day:-

Where would you find hua yong and ahbengs next?

(a) still in Malaysia
(b) in mainland china
(c) I dont care, but one thing for sure, these ahbengs are no longer here.

p/s : ahbengs takut mati lorrrr...!! (is that "kung king tung ting ching chung" above translated to?)

HuaYong said...

Aku,

You can do whatever you want. It is your prerogative.

Cakap tak serupa begin doesn’t make what you and me said relevant. So did you finally know what Greater China is? Do you need to travel to many places in order to know that?

I agree much have to do with perception and from time to time we have wrong perception. What I did is to clarify what I wrote. If you disagree/not happy with my clarification and wish to return to the original post and bla bla bla about it, there is not much I can do.

Thanks for the effort to let me know clearly what is biadab, but I think there is difference between know, read and understand a term in the context used. Read again all those that talk about biadab in full and not limited to that particular sentence. It is mind boggling that you’ve yet to figure this out until I elucidate?

My stance is clear, I think all language is level, the perception to communicate in English amount to courteous is to me, wrong, and will change. Common language is something similar to international language.

And I find it ridiculous to write like an Englishman in a blog like this. As my friend who has a high command of English sometimes says, it is kind of showing off.


Ikhwan my friend, I almost overlook your post again, sorry for that. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. It’s too bad that flattery coming from you isn’t worth much. For your information, next thread I might talk about reading, perhaps you shall get yourself ready, stay tune.

Kenn, I already answer the question you raised. Agree not to waste time.

MsLKM, for the sake of courtesy, I will normally ‘waste’ a few second to reply to any comment that address to me the first time no matter how stupid that comment to merit response, but as you said “We shouldn't waste time….” So I think we better stop here.

Anonymous said...

My concern is that the Demi Negara community here aren't using their 'writing well' capabilities to persuade the Chinese Malaysians or Indian Malaysians to feel more Malaysian. Persuasion works better than brute force.

Telling a Chinese Malaysian to go to hell for not being capable in the Malay language doesn't work. There must be other ways to entice the so called 'nons' to familiarize and appreciate our beautiful language more.

An easy way out is just inter-marrying everyone. Mix babies are cute!

Adam

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
____________________________________
Ikhwan my friend, I almost overlook your post again, sorry for that.
___________________________________

My reply:

Thanks for not overlooking my post this time....or perhaps you are just pretending to overlook since you are still trying to figure out how to concoct the facts and logic to support your emotional based opinion in reply to my comment???

Folks it probably would take him a little bit of time to twist and weaves his lies into the fact in order for him to post a reply. 

HuaYong further said:
___________________________________
Imitation is the highest form of flattery. It’s too bad that flattery coming from you isn’t worth much.
__________________________________

My response: see folks, how bad it could get when you are emotionally replying and when you dont have a clear conscious mind....Dude, maybe you have drink too much.

See how he has misunderstood my criticism with flattery! hehe...I could understand now, why you couldnt grasp the essence of KM writing since you could even differentiate between flattery and my criticism.

Or maybe this is just one of those "älien" budaya that perceive criticism as flattery. Indeed your logic and budaya is truly strange/weird. Hopefully you will get lost to your own planet mars or anywhere that you came from.

HuaYong then said:
_________________________________
For your information, next thread I might talk about reading, perhaps you shall get yourself ready, stay tune.
__________________________________

My reply: Bring it on, Be my guest!

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
________________________________
My stance is clear, I think all language is level,
________________________________

My comment:

Yeah, indeed all language is level except that certain language is made the prevalence language in a certain country e.g. English in Australia, America, England, Mandarin in China, Tamil in India, Arabic in the Middle East etc etc....

And this place here called MALAYsia, it is the Bahasa Malaysia. And by Bahasa Malaysia I mean the Bahasa Melayu!

Manyak susah la cakap sama ini "älien" Ada paham ka????

Anonymous said...

Adam,

You sound like an educated young man, but simplistic and inexperienced and not quite mature.
If you are, you would have come out with suggestions on how to “persuade the Chinese Malaysians or Indian Malaysians to feel more Malaysian”, to use your words.

Don’t you think that most people know that “Persuasion works better than brute force”? Did it not occur to you that they have tried persuading all these past 53 years since Merdeka and since the non-Malays were being given citizenship? There have been Bahasa Kebangsaan promotional campaigns since the setting up of Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka soon after Merdeka, with increased tempo since the early 1960s.

Have you not read the discussion on assimilation the Thai, Indonesian or Filipino way and that people in this country have not spoken for it – for “brute force”?

You should have realized that it’s not “for not being capable in the Malay language” but that it’s a mindset of not taking responsibility as Malaysian citizens to learn and practice the use of the National Language. It’s a matter of respecting and adhering to the Constitution of the country fully, including Article 152 on Bahasa Malaysia as the National Language. It’s a question of people isolating themselves away from mainstream Malaysiana, cocooned in a sub-group that wants schools with Mandarin and Tamil as the medium of instruction in schools.

My advice to you is to read more of KijangMas, especially his posts on Racial Polarisation and the need for a truly united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia, and the one entitled “At Last Someone With Testicular Fortitude”. Go into the Archives of his blog here and you’ll find them.

Also go to the Kempen SSS blog (simply google those words and you’ll get there) to know the many discussions that have been going on regarding the matter of vernacular schools and the need to have single-stream schooling or Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua (SSS).

Dot.

antubahasa said...

Well said Bro dot!!

msleepyhead said...

Salam,

There's no racism in Malaysian football, it is only "unfortunate that the Indians and Chinese are not interested in football these days." according to Datuk Redzuan Sheikh Ahmad, way back in 2007.

FAM also "funds all races, through individual organisations such as the Malaysian Indian Football Association."

So, please stop the blame game and hate-mongering.

Another Other Malaysian example.

And as satD and others pointed out, vernacular schools usually do not have their own padangs, and obviously sports are not their main focus, a look at Chinese newspapers will show.

Just ask Other Malaysian kids who grew up in the 80s and early 90s, what happened to team selection for school, district representation, etc. and you'll get a clearer picture. Disclaimer: this is hearsay and no facts to back it up. Apologies to sepadu in advance, :)

Anonymous said...

Saudara Dot,

I am a busy young man. Which is why I don't have time to elaborate, or take the effort to find ways to persuade them.

I know you think I'm a punk kid who is naive. And you're somewhat right about the naive part. I'm choosing to be optimistic about how things should be done - and I'll stand by my methods with a clear conscience on how I want to achieve things.

Relax old timer, this rebung can still be lentured :) Maybe years of hate and repression will change my views.

In the Demi Negara community we champion the Malays till no end. But I think we have to realize at times too that we have our faults. I have buddies who have received scholarships only to fail school. How many times have our Kelantanese football team rioted and destroyed street cars? Why are we so easily influenced by 'religious' notions?

Ok. Bring in the hate.

Adam

Anonymous said...

No need to bring in the hate, m'boy. (Excuse me for borrowing the words others have used in earlier comments). Just state what else you think should be done to bring about unity.

Let's hear more about your "methods" and on how you "want to achieve things." I am encouraged by your statement, "this rebung can still be lentured". I'm beginning to be proud of you for taking that stand.

Instead of just saying the obvious, try to suggest some specifics. Like gotong royong projects, rukun tetangga, etc. Which incidentally have all been tried. But which should not be abandoned although the racial mix participating may be lacking.

Everybody is busy, my dear chap. But when we write, let's try to be constructive.

And let's hear your views about single-stream schooling or SSS. Or any other views that sound positive and that might be helpful in bringing about a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

That way we can have a meaningful discussion like said by some one earlier on.

I'm interested to hear your views on what constitutes loyalty, nationalism and patriotism. On how the rakyat can show or prove their loyalty, nationalism and patriotism to the country.

KijangMas has spoken about patriotism as manifested in the football stadium. Let's get the ball rolling and widen the scope to other arenas.

Hope to hear from you on these. Best wishes to you until we meet again.

Dot.

Anonymous said...

I will reply to you when i get to my destination saudara dot. Travelling at the moment. And this keypad at the moment isn't really idealistic to type on. Till then.

Adam

Pendekarlara said...

This Adam fellow, he just want attention lah.

Could be Hua Yong's alter ego?

Adam, pls provide some examples of the soft-soft persuasive way to get these nons to be more Malaysian and less foreign.


Give us some solutions lah Adam .....

Anonymous said...

Pendekarlara, my name is in fact Adam. No, I am not Hua Yong. Read a bit and you'll find that we have distinct ways of writing. Check my IP address (there's four I think, one from office which reroutes through another country, one from my Iphone, one from my apartment and another from the wifey's laptop). Again, no, I am not here merely to seek attention. It would be nice if you didn't suggest so. But we aren't here to be friendly are we?

I support the Satu Sekolah System. I think it's important that Malaysians be verse in Bahasa Malaysia. As mentioned before, I thought that we should find solutions to persuade the 'nons' to be enticed by our beautiful language. Dot mentioned that every effort to do so for the past years have been in vain. And I think he's right. But why has it failed besides the obvious "we love our mother country" or "we don't want to lose our culture" or what ever other reason? Why is it that people are rejecting the SSS?

You want a solution, I'll suggest one. You won't like it. The 'nons' think lowly of us Malays and our culture. Yes I said it. They think we are malas, corrupt and stupid. That's why they don't want to be associated with us or our language.

I have a non-bumi friend at university who told me that he thought that Malays, in his words, "memang macam sapi. I don't know how they managed to get scholarships. But my perceptions have changed since I met you guys". The "you guys" are my friends and myself who are Malays and did pretty well in Uni.

Now, let's go with something crazy and say that you're a white man who lives in South Africa. Would you be well versed in "Afrikaan" or would you be more well versed in English? I'd say English.

My solution is to make ourselves better first. Sure there are aspects that the Malays shine in - like our peramah culture, adab kejiranan, sopan santun etc. But we have to be great in other aspects as well. We have to be hardworking, smart, principled and the like.

It's a long shot. But it's something. If Malays are known through out to be a race and society that other people look up to, even by the hardcore 'nons', do you think they would be more attracted to our language? Or would they just play dumb and stick in their bubble?

Adam

Anonymous said...

Adam,

Good to hear from you again. We can have a long and continuous dialogue in here as and when time permits.

Good that you support the SSS. It’s important that Malaysians be well versed in BM not so much because it’s a beautiful language but because it’s the National Language of our country. It’s stated so in the Constitution. Article 152.

All Malaysian citizens must respect and adhere to the Constitution fully. It’s the highest set of laws in the country. All other laws emanate from it. Without the Constitution we would be living under the laws of the jungle. Where the strong and the advanced will thrive, the weak and the left behind suffer endlessly. That can’t be right by any stretch of the imagination. The Malays have been left far behind economically and educationally by 80 years of British colonial rule, etc. I’ll be writing more about that as we go along.

To be fair to the non-Malays, not all efforts at integration (assimilation has not been attempted) have failed. There have been varying degrees of progress depending on the mind set of the various groups. There are the loyal, law abiding and Constitution respecting ones. But there are the ones choosing to isolate themselves maintaining their own system of values not quite Malaysian in kind, in hopes and aspirations.

Why the proponents and supporters of vernacular schools have been rejecting the SSS has a lot to do with not knowing the history of the country from its very beginning, including that part of history where they first came in large numbers, the background of the Constitution, understanding and accepting the Constitution fully, especially the sensitive Clauses that are protected by the Sedition Act. Good that History will be a compulsory subject in schools beginning in 2013. We can hope for the evolution of a Constitution respecting Malaysian citizenry in the future.

Not wanting to be “associated with us or our language” cannot be because of our “malas, corrupt and stupid”. It’s stupid of them if they think we are malas and stupid and avoid us on that count. Corrupt may be, but they are also corrupt. Read what former MCA President Ong Ka Ting said last year about MCA being full of money politics, phantom members and branches. And what former Selangor DAP Exco member Ronnie Liu said about the recent DAP Selangor party elections. The tender-influencing letters using Ronnie Liu letterheads. The MACC investigation into Selangor Exco expenditure irregularities that led to Teoh Beng Hock’s death, the cause of which is not known to this day. The MACC arrests of Penang Development officials appointed by the DAP Government. And a host of other corrupt practices by non-Malays.

Remember, corruption is not just the taking; it’s also the giving. Historically, the Malays hardly knew corruption. Tun Mutahir, a Bendahara of Indian blood during the Malacca Sultanate was arrested and killed because of amassing wealth. The Malays did not have a culture of amassing wealth, a tendency disliked by the Sultan and the nobility for “cuba melebihi Raja”. You can guess where corruption came from. Corruption was rampant in China since over 2,000 years ago. Made rampant by the eunuchs who had such a strong influence on the Emperor that anyone wanting jobs, positions or anything from the Emperor had to pay gold to the eunuchs. That “culture” has found its way to places where the Chinese went. So did the institution of secret societies, thugs and gangsters. You can read about that “culture” in Professor C.P Fitzgeral’s book on the Cultural History of China.

Dot.

(To be Continued)

Anonymous said...

(Continuation)

Adam,

The terrible perception of Malays held by your university mate must have been gained from the anti-Malay propaganda spread by those who do not accept the Constitution fully. The so-called “Malaysian Malaysia” crowd that wants equality without acknowledging the Special Position of the Malays. That Special Position which is enshrined as Article 153 of the Constitution. That which has been there “since day one”, as the British Secretary for Colonial Affairs told the British Parliament when tabling the Malaya Independence Bill in 1956. The Constitution that has been debated and passed by the Parliament of this country twice, once at Merdeka and another at the formation of Malaysia.

"memang macam sapi”, said he? “don't know how they managed to get scholarships”, he asked? These are simply ignorant, poorly misled thinking but luckily he learnt a little, saying “my perceptions have changed since I met you guys". Good of you all to have contributed towards that change. Now, that’s what I call positive, specific steps you all took. Let’s hear more of those, what exactly they were that you all did to have changed your friend’s perceptions. Give us the specifics.

If going by passing university exams, we have no real problems, don’t you think? There have been so many who passed since the New Economic Policy was started in 1970, though the Malays are still not even 30% in the various professional fields. It must be more than Malays passing university exams. The relentless propaganda put out by the said “Malaysian Malaysia” crowd has played a large part. That’s why more and more Malays who have passed universities, and those who don’t but have a wealth of life experience, knowledge and wisdom, must come out to disabuse their propaganda, rebut their arguments and explain the Malay position again and again.

Dot.

(To continued in Part 3)

Anonymous said...

(Continuation - Part 3)

Adam,

In trying to find solutions to our problems, let’s find out other causes for the highly inaccurate and unwarranted “pereptions of lazy and corrupt Malays” like your friend had. Let’s talk about whether the term “ultra kiasu” (variously described as being extremely selfish, not wanting to be left out, not wanting to lose out, ungrateful having got citizenship right but not respecting the Malay Special Position, etc) is justifiable or not. Whether the others hold such perceptions out of ignorance of history or deliberate or hardcore non-acceptance of the Constitution.

The Constitution is a measure of loyalty to this country, or to any country, for that matter. Whether non-respect of the Constitution constitutes non loyalty to this country. If all those above are true, let's talk about what can be done about them.

Sure, one “solution is to make ourselves better first. Sure there are aspects that the Malays shine in - like our peramah culture, adab kejiranan, sopan santun etc.” But others have pointed out that our polite nature and accomodating disposition has been taken as a weakness and exploited by the others. Let’s talk about that as well.

Agree with you that “we have to be great in other aspects as well. We have to be hardworking, smart, principled and the like.” I look forward to hearing specific examples from you in “the other aspects” that you mention. How to do them, in specific terms.

The “long shot” is not the problem. The problem is they have been accusing us of being slow as well. Kept saying it’s been 40 years and we haven’t achieved the NEP target. Not taking into account the fact that the Malays do not have a culture of doing business i.e profit taking and wealth accumulation, like the Chinese have for thousands of years.

The Malays have a culture of trading or “berdagang”. Where they exchanged essential goods needed for subsistence living. Read about it in “Tamadun Alam Melayu” by Mohd Arof Ishak, published by the Historical Society of Malaysia, 2009. Even in the late 19th Century Malays in Perak still pedalled their sampan to the river mouth or riverine settlements to exchange tin ingots of various forms and sizes for bales of cloth. Read about it in the History of Perak by Professor Fauzi Basri, published by Yayasan Perak.

They have become racist, too, by asking that the Malay equity target be abolished, to the extent that there are Malays who ask that the citizenship right of those concerned be also abolished.

Being chauvinistic is one thing but being racist is another. Racism is being antagonistic towads another race. Asking for the Malay equity target be abolished is certainly racist and must be abhorred. Let’s talk about how to ensure that they never do such things again. So that no Malays need to react by asking their citizenship right be also abolished. Doing those is not good for unity in the country.

Language, the linguists say, evolves. But it doesn’t mean people be allowed to choose what language they want to speak, without regard for the laws of the country, the Constitution. Even in liberal US all kinds of ethnicities shed their mother tongues as they progressed into nationhood and call themselves Americans.

The English would stare hard at any one who speaks non-English in their company when in England. Let’s talk whether staring hard like the Engish do would serve its purpose in Malaysia or hitting hard in blogs would make the errant Malaysians realize their responsibilities as citizens of a country that they claim to be.

If not, how else. Let's argue them in detail, giving specific examples where necessary. Let’s provide the justifications for the pro or con views we might put out.

I’ll be writing again in due course.

Dot.

Anonymous said...

Saudara Dot,

I must admit, I was pretty ignorant about our Constitution until recently when people started to bash it, only then did I start to read up on it. My own ignorance towards it stems from not being taught anything about it in school. At least, I don't remember it being taught in school. It's even more shameful that I know more about the American Constitution than my own Constitution, since they bring up their Constitution plentiful in rally-talks, town hall meetings, speeches, in the news etc.

My buddy, the same one that thought most Malays were sapi, said that our Constitution has been amended plenty of times that it has been deemed weakened at this point and time. I explained to him that our Constitution has been amended in huge numbers because of giving the 'nons' their citizen rights, as our Constitution was drafted before the inclusion of the 'nons'. Although, he did bring up some other amendments that don't make sense in our Constitution, one amendment was created so that a judge could serve longer than originally allowed? I can't verify that amendment, so I'll just take his word for it.

His perception of Malays changed because my friends and myself were very hardworking in university. Personally, I'd sleep around three hours every weekday around exam season and catch up on sleep during the weekends (I wouldn't recommend that to other people). He also applauded our ability to mix with mat sallehs, that he was surprised of our good command of English. Our co-curricular activities were done properly as well, as we hosted the Malaysian games at our university backyard and the games turned out to be a huge success. I guess he was surprised that Malays could actually 'do things' properly. I'm using those terms loosely so don't be hating.

Back to the topic, I agree with you that there are racists amongst the 'nons'. Equally there are racists amongst us Malays as well. We Malays tend to think that the Chinese are only interested in hoarding wealth, that friendship and principles can be placed aside as long as they have a lot of money. They on the other hand think we are pemalas, stupid and can be taken advantaged of. This stigma has been multiplied exponentially with issues like you mentioned - asking for the abolishment of the 30% bumiputera equity and the abolishment of citizenship. Again, I agree with you that those notions must be stopped at all costs.

However, there are other issues that can be discussed. For instance, pertaining to the bumiputera special rights... where does it end? I'm all for propelling us Malays from hardships. But there are just some issues with the bumiputra rights that I just have to "tutup sebelah mata" with disgust. For instance, the AP issue. I don't think that the bumiputra special rights clause should be used to help one family become extremely rich. I'm pretty sure that's not the goal of that clause.

There are plenty of the 'nons' that accept our Constitution when it pertains to the bumiputra rights. But when they personally see Malays throwing away their scholarships or taking advantage of the system (eg: AP) it just makes them pissed off, and rightly so.

Ok gtg, got things to do.

Adam

Anonymous said...

Adam,

You are a good man, my friend. It takes a man to admit one’s ignorance, weakness or mistake. As the saying goes, to err is human, and nobody is perfect. Those who think they are always right or never admit their ignorance, weaknesses or mistakes are lesser human beings. Sad to say but many can be found among politicians.

They include those who climbed up the table in full State Assemblyman regalia, stood up and shouted to rival politicians, those shouting in Parliament, not heeding the Speaker’s ruling and got thrown out for 6 months. A sorry state of affairs in this country. Imitating so-called Parliamentarians of Taiwan who were photographed physically fighting one another, throwing punches and the like.

One constitutional law professor observed that our politicians have not reached the level of maturity of those in advanced countries. Unity is made more difficult with “Yang Berhormats” who are not quite “berhormat”.

Take your time to know the constitution of our country. And I suggest that you know it fully, especially the sensitive clauses that are protected under the Sedition Act. They were written into the constitution not just for the fun of the parliamentary or constitutional draftsmen, but with specific purposes, to serve the interests of those the Constitution was designed to protect.

I also must admit that I do not know it thoroughly but perhaps sufficiently to give views as a layman, not as an expert. Do write in on any issues that you might find when going through the Constitution document. When googling it, I suggest you go to the Government or official websites, as those written in Wikipedia are suspicious – Wikipedia is where the non experts go when trying to, for example, literally change the history of our country.

True, the Constitution has been amended many times. It can be amended only with a 2/3 Parliamentary majority. A clear example was at the formation of Malaysia when the Malayan Constitution was substantially changed to accommodate Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore in 1963. It was changed again when Singapore was “kicked out” in 1965. For detailed explanations on why the sensitive provisions cannot be changed, google Dato Seri Najib’s speech at the Perhimpunan Agung Tahunan UMNO 2010.

Your “sapi buddy” was wrong. There’s no such thing as the Constitution being “deemed weakened”. He is misled either by ignorance or by the propaganda of the Opposition parties’ ultra kiasus or those not respecting what has been referred to as the Social Contract – the understanding, indeed agreement, among the leaders of the various communities when confronting the British negotiating for independence, and endorsed by the representatives of the people who voted for the draft constitution be adopted in Parliament at Merdeka and at the formation of Malaysia.

The Opposition always oppose and have views different from the Establishment. It is important to note that constitutional amendments, including those affecting Judges, have not only been agreed by the majority but by a minimum of 2/3 of the Members of Parliament.

Good that your friend applauded the ability of your group of Malay students to mix with the locals. Hopefully he’ll follow this trait of joining the mainstream, whether overseas or in Malaysia. This is what is needed of those who do not join mainstream Malaysiana, those refusing to attend our national schools, insisting on vernacular schools, mixing mainly among their own kind and developing narrow mindedness and views not conducive to the creation of a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

Dot.

(Continued).

Anonymous said...

(Continuation)

Adam,

According to the dictionary, racism is where there is antagonism against other races. Adolf Hitler was not racist but anarchist when he started World War II. He was bloody racist when he ordered the extermination of Jews. Non-Malays are not racist but perhaps greedy when wanting more for themselves. But are bloody racist when talking of doing away with the Malay Special Position (DAP) or allowing a resolution asking that the Malay equity target be abolished (MCA). But can the Malays be racist when asking those fellows’ citizenship be also abolished, as a reaction – that is subject to interpretation.

Remember also the scientific theory of human behavior - stimulus is always followed by a reaction. Hence the racial riots of 13 May 1969 occurred. And all Malaysians, kiasus and non kiasus, must avoid its recurrence.

The apt terminology is “Bumiputera Special Position”. One so-called “Melayu liberal” university lecturer, who is in fact a pseudo-liberal (let me know if you want me to justify that view), points that out in a disparaging manner, quoting words from the Constitution which say “the Special Position of the Malays” and lists out the role and functions of the Malay Rulers and the YDP Agong in protecting the interests of the Malays, the natives of Sabah and Sarawak (also known as Bumiputeras), and “the legitimate interest of the others”.

Perhaps to indicate what was behind the thinking of the British who were responsible for the draft of our constitution, and to remind those concerned not to be ultra kiasu but be reasonable and join mainstream Malaysiana, it may be noted that the entire constitution of the country makes no mention of Chinese. And, while the Special Position of the Malays is listed in detail and the Special Position also applies to the natives of Sabah and Sarawak, the interest of the others are written by way of “the legitimate interest of the others”. Note that this entire provision is protected under the Sedition Act and it is a criminal offence to question it.

Rest assured that “the legitimate interest of the others” has been looked after. Imagine, Government scholarships, which have been allocated to help the Malays catch up after being left far behind economically and educationally during 80 years of colonial rule, have recently been given to a number of Chinese. Many people point out that this is more than "the legitimate interest" of the Chinese.

Note that the Malays have nowhere to go to for educational assistance, no other sources than Government funds. The Chinese have so many millionaire philanthropists who, by tradition, donate scholarships and all sorts of funds to help the needy Chinese. They have, again by hundreds if not thousands of years of tradition, all sorts of clan associations and business guilds that help their less fortunate.

The Universiti Tengku A Rahman (UTAR) recently even refused RM30 million scholarships etc donations from an Engineer millionaire philanthropist apparently because they already have so many donations. One Chinese newspaper millionaire is said to have sent money to mainland China to build schools there.

Yet MCA and others keep harping on getting government scholarships, which should be allocated to those who have no where else to go to for financial assistance for higher studies.

They keep saying they pay the most tax. This is not true as the Ministry of Finance/ Inland Revenue figures quoted somewhere show that the Chines pay only 30% tax, Government Linked Companies (GLCs) pay 40%, Malays, others and foreigners pay 30%. And the Government has to maintain special manpower, equipment and facilities in the Police Force in all the states to monitor and control the secret societies, thugs and gangsters, who are mainly Chinese.

Dot.

(Continued in Part 3)

Anonymous said...

Continuation - Part 3)

Adam,

It may be a rhetorical question but in an answer to it, the Bumiputera Special Position does not “end”. It is enshrined in the Constitution as Article 153 and cannot be amended even with a 2/3 Parliamentary majority, as DS Najib has explained at at length at the last UMNO General Assembly.

The AP issue, scholarships etc are under the New Economic Policy. And we need to distinguish between “policy concept” and “policy implementation”. There is nothing wrong with the NEP policy concept. I can write at length on the rationale for the NEP. But everybody is agreed that there are things wrong with policy implementation and that the NEP should not enrich only the Malay elite.

Just as there are many things wrong with policy implementation by the ultra kiasus. DAP criticizes endlessly about lack of transparency in project awards. But look at the RM300 million Majlis Bandaran Penang project just announced by Lim Guan Eng.

They use the “Design and Construct” method of implementation. This “Turn-Key” concept allows the contractor to appoint his own architect, engineers (civil, structural, electrical and mechanical), quantity surveyors etc. There’s no transparency even in the selection of bidders. No mention of pre-qualification of interested parties, the criteria for short-listing, basis or briefs for submission of “proposals” by those allowd to submit, the criteria for selection of the successful one.

The design and construct system of implementing projects means comparing apples and pears. This is because the design and proposal of one bidder differs from another, no detailed specification is furnished at time of proposal submission. Unlike the traditional method of carrying out projects where big projects are parceled out into packages, an architect is selected to design, an engineer to write out the specification, a quantity surveyor to work out estimates to be used for tender evaluation based largely on price.

It's important to note: where the architect, engineers and QS are appointed separately and serve only the project owner, in “design and construct” system, those professionals serve the contractor.

Imagine the many areas where hanky panky and kickbacks are possible. On top of all those, Lim Guan Eng’s “design and construct” method also allows the contractor to be involved in the land evaluation process, again bringing in his own land valuation people.

True, the design and construct system is used by others as well. But here is a case where the ones who lambast others are also doing the very same thing they hit others with.

This is not an attempt at politicking for I’m not a member of any political party. This is also not an attempt at bringing out arguments to put people down.

Rather, it's an attempt to furnish the arguments to show the kind of ultra kiasus that make unity difficult in this country. Those arguments that hopefully will help bring a greater understanding of the “non-unity” forces, and, with understanding, perhaps greater awareness to avoid the pitfalls, and from there hopefully harmony and long-term peace will emerge in this country.

Have a good day to you and to all readers.

Dot.

KijangMas said...

antusiri said:-
"Well Kijang Mas ... what can you expect from a person who celebrated his birthday with testicle juice? As you said it KijangMas, very true. A typical Melayu Sesat. A troll!"

Yup antu, I sense a strong case of locational isolation induced inbreeding in this troll and similar Melayu Sesats littering the cyberworld.

--------

Tommy Yewfigure said:-
"Wah Bosz, betul ker ni, u naik LRT ka? That must be a first for u in recent time."

Wau lau Unker, where can bring the 430 Scuderia amidst a possible riot between the Crouching Malayan Tiger and Hidden Garuda fans. One replacement rear lamp sudah boleh kaw tim my airfare back to LAX maaa.


Unker Tommy:-
"What lah u calling your critic dickhead & prick, where lah is your decorum standard, up your ass like your head ker? Tsk behaving like a soccer hooligan, mob mentality so unlike your normal coolness….kakaka."

We cannot be boh chup with some of these weirdos lah. In fact this boh lum par chee and boh liao hairan troll was fortunate I didn't unleash my choice Queen's Hokkien. It would have melted his el cheapo laptop.

Some of these lost souls really have no idea who the heck they are addressing here. Si noong kia! Darn boh tua boh suay!


More Unker:-
"P/S – bolih (sic) ciplak this or not?...so original;"

Boleh. Tapi don't lah use it too liberally in the cosy makcik blogs where you usually hang out as a "thorn among the roses." One of these fine makciks must have reminded you of your old flame, Nora. True ah?

--------

Adam (January 14, 2011 11:21 PM) said:-
"I watch the EPL, don't care to watch Malaysian football cause I don't think the quality is good."

It's not about the "quality." It's about supporting your country, more so against regional competition. Don't lah be so one-dimensional and watch only the EPL. True football fans watch the game at every level, from the domestic league all the way to the World Cup. That is the real joy of football and sports in general, where the competitive spirit and excitement radiates at every level.

Plus of course saudara, a Man Utd-Liverpool or Chelsea-Arsenal matchup in far away England will never induce the national pride and patriotic fervor of a Malaysia-Indonesia clash, be it in football or yesterday's Lee Chong Wei-Taufik Hidayat battle in badminton.

It's unfortunate you have not been able to experience the joy of supporting your country among 100,000 flag-waving, ecstatic fans. I've been to the Emirates stadium and Stamford Bridge plus many U.S. stadiums, including the LA Memorial Coliseum (USC Trojans), Rose Bowl (1994 World Cup & Pac-10 games) and Candlestick Park (SF 49ers) but the patriotic pride and Malaysian camaraderie felt on Dec. 26, 2010 at Bukit Jalil was surreal. My young son will cherish it for the rest of his life.

I suggest you ignore shallow peer groupthink for a change and get out of your "I watch the EPL, don't care to watch Malaysian football" mental block.

Adam again:-
"Since you follow NCAA football (real football, way better than the EPL), I can't believe Auburn won. :( . What the hell happened to Alabama and LSU and all the big giants?"

This (2010 season) is Auburn's year lah, led by their phenom Heisman Trophy winning QB, Cam Newton. Alabama was national champ last year with LSU tops in 2007. With Florida's successes in 2006 and 2008, SEC teams have won the last five BCS championships, and I grudgingly acknowledge the SEC as the toughest conference presently in NCAA college football.

HuaYong said...

Adam wrote “They think we are malas, corrupt and stupid. That's why they don't want to be associated with us or our language.”

I concur with Dot that those Chinese Malaysian who said the above are stupid, or perhaps ignorance. “Chinese” is a relatively aged culture that with various positive and negative aspect, a retrospect into earlier twentieth century would tell us that “Chinese” were deemed backward, weak and poor though they also went through an era of glory and powerful during dynasty like Han, Tang and Song. Instead of stereotyping, we should see thing from a wider socio-political, socio-economic perspective and history. Civilization have it up down and would progress at different path and timeline, it is therefore important to know what went wrong and to learn what can / shall be done, for instance, NEP that with sound governance is a wise step.

Most aged civilization and culture like “Chinese” and Islam share common feature, we are proud of what we are but at the same time, not dynamic and vibrant enough to change and adapt, my opinion is that we can’t expect melting pot like what happen in America unless we are prepare to grant more freedom / liberty in term of religion and race (mix babies are cute!!), we can’t opt only what we reckon as rights and disregard the differences which we persist to uphold. Someone mention assimilation of Indonesia and British, but the more relevant comparison to us is Thailand and Philippines. I don’t think “Chinese” from these two neighbors, on historical angle, constitute much difference with “Chinese” over here in Malaysia, but how come end result is immensely dissimilar?

The current prevalent worldview and political divide make integration and assimilation (I personally do not believe such concepts would help, it is more like red herring) unattainable, perhaps diversity is another alternative as long as the shared common values would help improving our quality of life, which I don’t have an answer yet. Many here including KM and SatD do present excellent idea on how to manage and develop SSS that could lead to better understanding and join the mainstream (I am not sure what tantamount to mainstream and in what aspect), however, a significant transformation in mindset and values should be the utmost task ahead to enhance trust, in order to carry out the mission. The tussle, racial slur and demand for submission among us could only extend our politician schadenfreude moment, with minimal result achieve pertaining to the objective.

“Our language” is an interesting topic. I meet some expatriate that work in Asia other than Malaysia/Singapore/Philippines who can speak/understand decent native language, it is a natural process, or else they can’t even get to order meal in a restaurant. Are we in the same condition? Are we doing enough to make BM a lingua franca? I doubt this very much. Hence the poor command of BM may have nothing to do with notion given by Adam with regards to the above statement.

PS/ Adam, glad to see that most of your thoughts are sensible.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

I agree with you that “NEP with sound governance is a wise step”. But the problem is how to get there. “Highly civilized” and with an “Advanced Country” status.

Simply saying change the Government or avoid corruption is being too simplistic and naive. The Opposition has been seen as not being a better alternative. They also have the same weaknesses as those they criticize day in and day out. SSS and History as a compulsory subject in schools provide a good chance of bringing future generations there in reasonably early time with continued peace and harmony.

In the first decade of independence there was peace and harmony in the country. Perhaps even the British, some of whom had, during and immediately post colonial times, expressed pessimism on whether this country could survive its fragile multi-racial composition, might have been surprised that we survived as a political entity.

But that was a period when the Social Contract (an understanding struck among the leaders of the major races on citizenship right for the non-Malays and the enshrining of the Malay Special Position in the Constitution) was still fresh in the minds of the people. The Malays, who led the post-independent Government in politics and in the Civil Service, were continuing their accommodative spirit by relaxing the condition for the issue of citizenship papers i.e Malay language proficiency tests. To the extent that after a few years such tests were set aside.

Then came Lee Kuan Yew and his so-called Malaysian Malaysia slogan when Singapore became a part of Malaysia in 1963, exploiting the situation. That concept was, and still is, subversive to the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak who also had that position when the two states became a part of Malaysia. Subversive because it wants equality without acknowledging that Special Position.

When LKY and Singapore were “kicked out” of Malaysia in 1965, Lim Kit Siang and DAP picked that slogan up and continued to hog it to Malaysians. They did it in seditious ways, speaking and writing in inflammatory tones, creating racial tension during the General Elections of 1969. It flared up into racial riots when the DAP members and supporters celebrated election victories by convoying into Malay dominant areas shouting and behaving in highly abusive and provocative ways.

NEP was born after the racial riots. The Malays improved their lot considerably and there came peace again. But DAP still hogs the so-called Malaysian Malaysia slogan. At one General Elections, they had as a party platform the doing away of Malay rights and priviledges that came under the Malay Special Position. The Opposition won big in GE 12 in 2008. Its anti-Malay sentiment reached the extent that even MCA, a member of the ruling coalition, tried to copy it in order to get back voters who ran away to DAP. MCA allowed a resolution calling for the abolition of the Malay equity target. Many Malays reacted by asking for the abolition of the citizenship right of those concerned. Now, how can we achieve unity this way?

True, the issue of good governance is important. But surely the issue of a responsible opposition is also important. And the avoidance of racism among the people, both politicians and the ordinary citizens. Racism being defined as antagonism against other races, means that the so-called Malaysian Malaysia without acknowledging the Malay and Bumiputera Special Position is racist. Whereas the NEP is not, because of the Special Position and the need to correct the huge educational and economic imbalance created by 80 years of British colonial rule.

In these circumstances then, diversity will not lead to unity. Remember that parallel lines never meet. And mainstream is that which respects and adhere to the Constitution of the country fully. I’ll get to these later.

Dot.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

I’m afraid I don’t understand what you meant by saying

“unless we are prepare to grant more freedom / liberty in term of religion and race (mix babies are cute!!), we can’t opt only what we reckon as rights and disregard the differences which we persist to uphold.”

Nobody has called for the “assimilation” of Malaysian Chinese like done in Indonesia but I also do not understand what you meant by

“the more relevant comparison to us is Thailand and Philippines. I don’t think “Chinese” from these two neighbors, on historical angle, constitute much difference with “Chinese” over here in Malaysia, but how come end result is immensely dissimilar? “

“Integration” is possible and necessary and no force is involved but it merely requires following and living by the Constitution fully. “Assimilation” involves force like in Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines. The immigrants have to change names, use local ones, speak the local language fully, use local dresses and not even allowed their own schools, Lion dances and other cultural forms like in Indonesia under Suharto. The Thai General who introduced “assimilation” laws in Thailand even had immigrants who don’t speak Thai, use Thai names and wear Thai dresses caned!

The phrase “Unity in diversity” is hollow, devoid of substance and truth. It is only good for billboards to attract foreign tourists. How can people of diverse interests, contradicting values, hopes and aspirations be united as one truly strong and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia?

Aren’t the Dhong Zhong, the proponents of Chinese schools, not having different values, hopes and aspirations? Are they not valuing Mandarin more important than Bahasa Malaysia which is clearly stated in the Constitution as the National Language of the country?

Surely “the shared common values would help improv(e) our quality of life” – values like respect for the National Language, honouring the Social Contract and the sensitive clauses of the Constitution. You see, not just the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak are sensitive and cannot be questioned, but the right to citizenship of the non-Malays, too.

So, if everybody respects and live by the Constitution fully, there’ll be no grudging and counter-grudging and wouldn’t that “help improve our quality of life”?

And in this connection, I don’t understand who you are referring to by saying

“The tussle, racial slur and demand for submission among us could only extend our politician schadenfreude moment”

and what “minimal result achieve” you envisage, and what “objective” you are referring to.

Similarly, to make this a meaningful discussion, I would appreciate it if you elaborate your question “Are we doing enough to make BM a lingua franca? For example, what kind of things you think should be done, who you expect to be “doing enough”, what constitutes “enough” and the like.

I hope to hear from you on those so that we can try to understand one another better and make meaningful suggestions as to how long term harmony, peace and progress can be achieved.

Dot.

KijangMas said...

sepadu said:-
"Penang, the DAP stronghold, has not even 1% Malay children in SRJKs - only about 0.5%. Perak ... has only 3%. Selangor ... has only about 4%, Wilayah Persekutuan 4% ... But Sabah has 31% and Sarawak 22%. However, note that these are classified as Bumiputera children and therefore are largely the natives of the two states, rather than Malays ... The high Sabah and Sarawak figures increase the total percentage of "Bumiputera children" in SRJKs, but to only 9% ... These do not justify the possibility of even one SRJK having "a balanced ethnic mix of students or even a Malay majority one" at all."

Salam sdr sepadu. Timely clarification.

Yes, Malay enrolment in SJKCs is negligible when viewed from the Malay/Bumi perspective.
Being the majority racial group (almost 70% of the total Malaysian population and 83% of the Sabah and 76% of the Sarawak population respectively), a portion of them are bound to spill over to the SJKCs in a natural process of choice, convenience and circumstance. In the Borneo states, due to the small student population in many of these isolated SJKCs, even a handful of Bumi pupils would significantly recalibrate the population ratio of these schools.

About 76% of Malaysian primary school children attend the Sekolah Kebangsaan. About 21% attend SJKCs and 3% SJKTs. The 9% of the SJKC enrollment who are Malay/Bumis constitute only a negligible 2.4% of the total Malay/Bumi primary school student pool. Of course, due to their relative numbers, even a 1-2% shift of the Malay/Bumi student pool into the SJKCs would significantly impact the ethnic ratio in the smaller SJKC student pool, especially the small SJKCs in interior Sabah and Sarawak, and this trend would continue as non-Malay/Bumi birthrates decline relative to the Malay/Bumi majority. But it would be far fetch to infer the Malay/Bumi dilution of the SJKC mono-ethnic essence as a sign of Malay/Bumi abandonment of the Sekolah Kebangsaan in favour of the SJKCs.

--------

HuaYong said:-
"Basketball ... is played predominantly by Chinese and the question come to mind shall be what efforts have been made to attract other ethnicities to make it a popular sport in Malaysia ..."

Well, for a start MABA should give preeminence to the national language, Bahasa Melayu, in its website, publications and flyers. What is
this all about? Ini Liga Bolakeranjang Malaysia or is this some obscure league in Liaoning province? How can generate interest from the Melayus and other Bumis and Indias (77% of the rakyat) when they cannot even decipher the foreign hieroglyphics?

90% of Thai basketball players have Chinese blood and I'm sure many in the Indonesian squad as well. But it would be incomprehensible for the basketball associations or national leagues in these countries to publish or advertise in any other language except their respective national languages. Can our Sports Ministry get MABA to go easy on their blatantly for Chinese only league? Can the government say "you must give pre-eminence to BM if you want to attract the other 77% to have interest in your sport"? Or is this yet another "Chinese-only" sports and recreation club type of set-up?

Malay students in American universities regularly play basketball in the parks and gyms. Many are really good, able to feign moves around their American buddies and such. I had a decent turn-around jump shot in my day, practiced almost everyday after class during my LA college days. My Malay team mates (admittedly, some are gifted athletes sent by the Sports Ministry) regularly outplayed students representing COSA (Chinese Overseas Students Assoc., the group many Chinese Malaysians link up with, and not with the Malaysian Student Association .... but that's another story). But once these talented Malays balik Malaysia, basketball is forgotten as the game is so very identified with the Chinese here.

Ridzzy said...

Put football aside, and back to SSS. I still cannot comprehend why our efforts to unite our children in their most formative years is deemed as racist by certain quarters? Explain this to me because I am still perplexed on this notion .

Why are we even debating this?
Efforts to unite our children to a common aspiration is racist, but insisting on segregation is not?
I just cannot comprehend this reasoning. Is this not a positive step towards the "malaysian malaysia" that these opposer's seem to be championing ?

PS - I am not Malay, but i fully support the efforts of SSS, and hope that one day this will become a reality.

Ridzzy said...

1Malaysia should be Malaysians going to 1School, or else we can drop the rhetorics and sloganeering.

I work for a British MNC and my boss who is British is absolutely baffled about this unique (flawed?) system that we have here.

Better education in vernacular schools?My wife who is teaching tertiary level in a private university can vouch for the horrendous level of English this jenis kebangsaan types inherit into tertiary education. They enroll for a UK undergraduate program, but most drop out during 1st yearvdue to their language barrier. What reason do we still have to keep Vernacular schools?

Anonymous said...

Ridzzy,

Welcome to the discussions in this blog. Let me try to explain the problem.

The dictionary definition of the word “racial” has the element of antagonism towards other races. SSS has never been antagonistic towards other races. SSS merely tries to follow Article 152 of the Constitution of the country in exhorting for the creation of a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia. That Article clearly states Bahasa Malaysia as the National Language of the country.

SSS speaks for all schools to have Bahasa Malaysia as the medium of instruction, as well as for the teaching and learning of Mandarin and Tamil as elective subjects. There’s nothing antagonistic to other races there. Those SSS detractors calling it racist are completely way out in perspective and intent.

They have politicized the matter of single-stream schooling. These are people who usually try to find each and everything they could to politicize and do politicize them.

The so-called "malaysian malaysia" concept was conceived by Lee Kuan Yew when Singapore was in Malaysia 1963-65. It spoke for equality without acknowledging the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak under Article 153 of the Constitution. Equality in Malaysia has to take into account Article 153. The Constitution was debated and passed by Parliament twice, once at Merdeka and another at the formation of Malaysia.

That slogan was picked up by others when Singapore was separated from Malaysia in 1965. Proponents of and adherents to that concept also do not support SSS. They support not only Chinese schools at the primary level but also Chinese schools at the secondary level (about 60 of them exist in Malaysia today). It therefore cannot be said that SSS is a positive step towards the so-called “malaysian malaysia” idea.

The Dhong Zhong or Chinese Schools Association leaders have spoken about “multi nations within a nation”. But we must have one nation comprising of a single united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia which, when it has fully become reality, would negate the need of identification of all Malaysians by ethnic origin except for completely essential legal documentation.

I’m glad that you fully support the efforts of SSS. I believe that in the future a strong leadership will emerge and will produce the political will to ensure SSS will become a reality.

sepadu.

Ridzzy said...

Dear Sepadu,

I do not adhere to the Malaysian Malaysia concept as per the definition by LKY, that of "equality without acknowledging the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak under Article 153 of the Constitution"

Rather i use that term loosely as a support to ( as in your words); "one nation comprising of a single united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia" .. now THAT is MY definition of Malaysian Malaysia

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my earlier post.

msleepyhead said...

Hello adam, thanks for sharing your thoughts here, a breath of fresh air round these parts.
Salam to Dot too, we cross paths again.
I will have to agree with Dot’s triplet postings above. Dot is one of the resident commenters whom often repeats the same message over and over again just in case anyone forgets it. Thank you for reminding us once again Dot.

“Corruption was rampant in China since over 2,000 years ago.”

I got to second Dot here, just look at the corrupt Japanese ( Bureaucratic Corruption in Japan, Corruption and Government Scandals In Japan. Shame on them I say, even their former PM was arrested for taking bribes. This is surely the result of the thousands of year long influence of China on Japan. Even a whole city was shamelessly copied! Even their writing system was based on the Chinese characters but boy, despite all the corruption and scandals, not forgetting their loose morality (geishas in the past and a thriving porn industry in modern times) they are an economic powerhouse (sogososha), and even once had the audacity to try and conquer China and all of Asia. Still, even our Tun M was so impressed he created the Dasar Pandang Timur for us to emulate, and look where it got us.

But is corruption really the issue? APs, money politics, corruption, greedy Chinese are not what are stopping the Malays from progressing, it is just the culture itself that still has not progressed to the levels of material and technological advancement compared to others. Anthropological studies will show that it is not the individual (e.g. Tun M) that changes history, but the entire people and their culture. And this is the same world over, not only the Malays but look at Africa, despite being said to the be cradle of civilization, meaning the oldest human cultures are probably in Africa, but being oldest does not mean that their culture is the most advanced. Same with the Orang Asals, they were here longer, are historically older peoples, but they stuck to their simple living despite being exposed to the more rich complex culture of the Malays for hundreds if not thousands of years.

While it is easy to continue harping blame on others, please do not live in a constant denial mode. Corruption is not the issue here nor is its root, we can trace it back to many other early civilizations if we want to. Just google it. It is all part of a complex culture when people of position use various means to lobby for their personal interest. It still happens big time in China today, but guess what they just rolled out a speedy bullet train and are building skyscrapers like nobody’s business but 90% of the population are still farmers or agriculture based, not all Chinese are rich as always portrayed.

(to be continued)

Anonymous said...

Dear Ridzzy,

Don't worry about the misunderstanding. We know you meant well and are glad that you want SSS for the creation of a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

Let's keep on speaking for it and the issues related to it.

The Government deserves credit for the decision to make History a compulsory subject in schools beginning in 2013. It is believed that it would include teaching about the Constitution. That would help the younger and future generations understand the Constitution, respect it and live by it fully. They will then get the proper perspective on the need for unity and the basis for long term harmony among us all as fellow citizens of this country.

The Constitution must be the basis for unity in the country. It is the highest set of laws, all other laws emanate from it and cannot contradict it as they will be ultra vires and become null and void. Most importantly, the Constitution has been debated and approved by Parliament.

Making History a compulsory subject in schools was one of the SSS proposals. It may be considered as some progress in the SSS agenda.

We await the time when all schools will be merged into one system of education i.e national schools, with Bahasa Malaysia as the medium of instruction.

sepadu.

KijangMas said...

Dinturtle said:-
“Before JKKK give the money, i have to listen first he talk about UMNO, and he talk bad about PAS, and he said the money is from UMNO. But i see the face on the money is Agong face not Najib, so i say - Satu Malaysia ! hehehehe”

Salam sdr Dinturtle. Yes, the common rakyat are victimised by this intractable UMNO/BN vs PAS/PR political tussle in the East Coast.

It is more obvious and far-reaching in Kelantan. The PAS government in that state is incompetent, I repeat incompetent. These bunch of ceramah-obsessed “ulamak” (some say ular mak) are only good at preaching fables and fallacies day and night. Their fairytales, based on acute detachment from day-to-day realities, outdo even the most outlandish Indonesian sinetron.

The PAS government couldn’t comprehend basic economic principles. And forget about human capital development, FDI, fiscal spending or public revenue generation strategies and imperatives. They talk about cleanliness, and you’ll see furry rats the size of cats scurrying along the blocked drains and general filth surrounding their ceramah venues. They talk about family values and such but they abdicate the household responsibilities to the overworked womenfolk who had to eke out a living selling, trading or bartering anything under the sun.

As for UMNO, their control of the federal government means they control the purse strings on federal projects and funding in the state. And these are kept to a minimum lest the PAS buffoons would claim it as yet another brilliant Tok Guru-inspired development. Hence, billions of ringgit in oil royalties due to the Kelantan rakyat are siphoned off elsewhere and every token ringgit doled out to the impoverished folks are exaggerated as some kind of wang ehsan courtesy of UMNO’s personal ATM and not the rezeki & rahmat derived from Kelantan’s god-given natural resources.

At least Trengganu has spanking new highways bedecked with bonsai plants, although the ostentatious monuments and "tourist attractions" can be argued as fiscal wastage. Kelantan do not even have decent roads. As for drains, ... what drains?

The KB-Kuala Krai, KB-Pasir Puteh and KB-Pasir Mas routes have some of the highest traffic volumes in the nation. Any long-overdue expressways being built to overcome the congestion? Naah. Never, as long as the UMNO warlords are unable to wrest the state from the PAS Ular Maks. I find it tragically ironic that the federal EPU finds it feasible for future tax payers bailout seeking companies to build such inevitable white elephants as the Assam Jawa-Templer’s Park Expressway while neglecting the major Kelantan inter and intrastate thoroughfares which have 10-20 times the traffic volume.

So Din, while the PAS ular maks and UMNO warlords indulge in their never-ending fratricide, the common Oghé Kelaté will continue to suffer and be denied basic amenities afforded to other Malaysians.

Dinturtle added:-
"I am very sorry to say this, but now i hope my wakil rakyat die. He is good man but he will be more good if he die, because we will have PRK and government will help !"

Yup, sad but this is the exact sentiment expressed by many everywhere. Look at Galas, Hulu Selangor, Batu Sapi and now Tenang. Millions of federal funds poured into the constituencies and problems solved overnight.

Antubahasa said:-
"Here in Malaysia, people are too soft, too bersopan santun, too berlembut when these species "tung ting ching chung king kung" in their presence."

Not me Antu. When the "tung ting ching chung king kung" sound permeates the lift or makan shop, my party would automatically switch to very loud classic ebonics. Works all the time, and I love the look on the suddenly silent Ah Sohs' faces.

Anonymous said...

Salam msleepyhead,

Culture is a very broad subject encompassing both the material and the spiritual aspects. Broadly speaking, culture is a way of life, a way of thinking, a mindset and system of values, and religion is also a part of culture.

Lack of education and a preponderance on life in the hereafter has played a part in the lack of material progress in certain communities. In Malaysia, the "gua caya lu, tokeh", "mati bukan bawak harta" and the attitude of “lebih penting kaya diakhirat dari kaya didunia” has led to Malays in the past being more concerned over “spiritual wealth” rather than “material wealth”.

In the process perhaps they have allowed themselves to be exploited and ended up "kais pagi, makan pagi" for generations. That the British educational policies not helping the Malays have been spoken a lot here and elsewhere.

In fact, the "gua caya lu tokeh" mentality still exists to this day, though to a lesser degree. The "tokeh" who may be a simple middleman in the kampong will never “rugi” because he tells the price of goods purchased only on a monthly or seasonal basis (e.g durian). He does not quote, merely tells the price and it is hardly ever negotiated. He can even "berniaga atas angin", hardly having to have much capital apart from giving "duit makan" stipends to the “pelenggan” before the "kira getah" or "kira duit durian" at the end of the month or season.

Then there is the "curi timbang" and the giving of "harga" based on the lowest possible. Oil palm fruits are graded according to estimated oil content and rubber latex is graded according viscosity or fluidity and the smallholder or tapper is given the lowest price. Yet the middlemen, who own viscosity meters, will add water to the latex before re-selling it to the facory or the mill. I can produce proofs of these if necessary.

And the “gua caya lu” Ali Baba-ism in contracts is still going on, blameable on both parties of the Ali Babas. All these, despite the progress - though still unsatisfactory - in education.

(Continued)

Anonymous said...

(Continuation)

And I’ll have to keep reminding readers time and again on the facts of history, in order to have greater understanding, better goodwill and continued harmonious relations among Malaysians of various ethnicities. There are always new readers to blogs, new markets to sell my wares – harmony and unity, through SSS, history, culture, through full acceptance and practice of the Constitution, or whatever else that is legal and constitutional.

Education has broadened the perspective of the Malays and many are now trying the “culture of doing business and acquiring wealth”, though the problems and setbacks are multifarious, largely because they do not have control over the means of production, the network of distribution, etc. Hopefully this situation will change in time to come, allowing for a more equitable distribution of wealth, jobs in the professional field and skilled manpower.

Yet the influence of religion that tends to limit the freedom of the Malays in engaging in activities useful in the pursuit of wealth, or even just to make a decent living, is still there. For example, in the matter of engaging in the business of, or the occupation in trades involving the sale of liquor. This is being exploited and politicized by politicians, making it appear religious taboos are also an impediment to progress.

The Hindus will not engage in any business or occupation involving the killing of cows. The Buddhists may have a strong compassion on animals and not allow birds to be caged. Yet there are those who appear to have regarded certain activities as part of their way of life. For example, excessive risk taking like gambling, bribery and corruption.

But it is a matter of opinion how much these impede or propel the progress of their communities, relative to those of the Muslims. It may be subjective, even sensitive, to discuss these and I’m not sure whether it’s worth going into. No one culture is “better” than the other. Even to say one culture is more advanced than the other may not be correct because it is a matter of interpretation by the individual. At best, we may only state the various aspects of culture or ways of life of the various communities in the world and how they have fared over thousands of years.

However, I’ll leave it to you for the time being the matter of guessing what has made the mainland Chinese, a civilization of some 3,500 years old, having “rolled out a speedy bullet train and are building skyscrapers like nobody’s business but 90% of the population are still farmers or agriculture based”. And why we in Malaysia, independent only a few decades ago, built a one-time world tallest builing, Petronas Towers, and now want to build a 100-storey skyscraper.

Dot.

HuaYong said...

KM wrote “Well, for a start MABA should give preeminence to the national language, Bahasa Melayu, in its website, publications and flyers.”

This is a fair statement and I agree wholeheartedly, I would say KM reply is mostly right and I properly stand along with him and on his side, however, don’t we think phrase like “is this some obscure league in Liaoning province?” and “they cannot even decipher the foreign hieroglyphics?” could potentially alienates his audience and be less effective at presenting his perspective? Or perhaps his target audience is not reader like me? Or his writing is merely to share his feeling and emotions with the objective to have return like “bagus”, “sokong”, “well said”, “bravo” and “you are my hero”? Or he truly wants to change and shape peoples perspective, for instance, people like me?

Just to elaborate my point with a reply as follow: “To me, Chinese language is my language, it has nothing to do with Liaoning, Hunan, Hebei and Fujian, and there is no law yet to prohibit us for using our language.” Does my reply help to bridge the gap? Did we achieve anything from saying this? And in fact we know most of us have no difficulty to write in a defensive, offensive and antagonistic style.


Ridzzy
There are many things you can’t comprehend, perhaps due to your age but no worry; commentators like sepadu and me are here to help you. First of all is to correct some false notion, I am baffle why your British boss is baffled about our system. Didn’t you told him his father or grandfather does play a role to create this fantastic system that we are having now? No wonder our government wants to make history a compulsory subject!

And second, the English level of SK is equally horrendous, a more relevant comparison is urban school and rural school in order to assess the difference, or you may get your wife to teach at SJK Subang Jaya, the kids there will find your wife English are at horrendous level.

Third, there are many reason why we keep VS, could be historical, political, diversity, democracy and various other reason and that is why we debate, only those stay in a dictator country don’t debate.

Now forth, SSS is still a dream and fantasy, like Fantasy Island. What you read here and there and everywhere about SSS are all talks, the instant perception come to mind is that the premise of the whole concept is to close down VS first. Sepadu talk about Mandarin and Tamil but do you see this being implemented successfully in any SK yet?

And finally fifth, Malaysian Malaysia, the slogan from DAP. LKY is already history and in fact LKY never allow the survive of VS, though he do it in a more tactful way (I think he actually learn from Malaysia, our seventies ring a bell? Difference is he is persistence while we prefer take one step forward and two step backward), and if you observe carefully, the DAP today is much difference with DAP in the past, I even sense that they would become more MCA than MCA in the PR coalition and would not hesitate to kiss butt. My point is, some reject MM (LKY) but praise him for his education vision. Some reject MM (LGE) but in fact know very well their ideology and values are getting closer and closer to Malay and Islam, I mean PKR and PAS (The other mainstream). So all I see and feel is paradox. Stop here and might continue later if you need more helps.


Dot, you are a knowledgeable man. But your pieces are long and come with lot of questions, may take more time to reply. Hope you don’t mind. Thanks.

ikhwan said...

KM,

Reading your comment on "As for UMNO, their control of the federal government means they control the purse strings on federal projects and funding in the state. And these are kept to a minimum lest the PAS buffoons would claim it as yet another brilliant Tok Guru-inspired development."

I couldn't help myself to recall my recent chat with a very high senior government servant who questioned on why the UMNO government been allocating a 4 billion bridge project to Penang which is controlled by the Chinese chauvinist DAP meanwhile throating the budget to the kelantanese PAS.

Both are clearly the opposition but at least the kelantanese should be given the priority over the DAP controlled Penang.

I reckon with some goodwill on the UMNO government side, it would help to improve their standing on the eyes of the Kelantanese?. I reckon that there are still hope with the Malays but not with the Chinese Chauvinist.

Sometimes their (UMNO) action is really baffling!

Anonymous said...

I’d like to venture an opinion as to why some people wrote “bagus”, “sokong”, “well said”, “bravo” and “you are my hero” to KijangMas’ writings that HuaYong referred to above. I think it’s because they genuinely think so and want to support and urge him on in his writings, that hopefully will “change and shape peoples perspective, for instance, people like me (HuaYong).”

I must confess I don’t understand what HuaYong meant or intended to accomplish by saying “Just to elaborate my point with a reply as follow: “To me, Chinese language is my language, it has nothing to do with Liaoning, Hunan, Hebei and Fujian, and there is no law yet to prohibit us for using our language.” Does my reply help to bridge the gap? Did we achieve anything from saying this? And in fact we know most of us have no difficulty to write in a defensive, offensive and antagonistic style.”

I also do not understand his statement “What you read here and there and everywhere about SSS are all talks, the instant perception come to mind is that the premise of the whole concept is to close down VS first. Sepadu talk about Mandarin and Tamil but do you see this being implemented successfully in any SK yet?”

Does he mean let vernacular schools continue until Sekolah Kebangsaan can “implement the teaching of Mandarin and Tamil successfully” first? I don’t see the logic there.

The statement “.. I mean PKR and PAS (The other mainstream)”. Can there be two mainstreams?

And I also don’t understand the statement “Some reject MM (LGE) but in fact know very well their ideology and values are getting closer and closer to Malay and Islam, I mean PKR and PAS”.

I hope my comment will not lead to accusations of comprehension problem and counter-accusations of communication capabilities. It’s just seeking clarifications in the interest of meaningful discussions.

Maju.

Naif said...

To Hua Yong:
Aww,the language too harsh for you Mr.Sensitive? Been to Malaysiakini/Today/Insider lately? If you think phrases like “is this some obscure league in Liaoning province” and "hieroglyphics" are offensive then I suggest you peruse the comments section of ANY article in the aforementioned websites and you're bound to see some form of Malay bashing, of course most will say that their criticism are directed towards the ruling govt, but who are we kidding here folks, the comments there reeks racism, MUCH MUCH worst than whats been written here (so far).

So you people can write whatever you want and we cant? So freedom of speech applies to only people like you and not us? Wow, can you say "double standard"?

As to the subject of vernacular schools, the main point which you haven't address is this: that these schools use mandarin/tamil as medium of instruction, this we have a problem. What Sekolah Kebangsaan graduates have compared to Vernacular school graduates is a good command of Bahasa Malaysia and at the end of the day that's all that really counts in terms of nation building. Different languages produces different value systems. We no longer communicate, we view the other race as the "other", its always us against "them", hence the existence of vernacular press, vernacular television shows, vernacular schools and so on. All this explain how lately we have become so intolerant as a nation. The fault then dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Its high time we rule these sekolah haram as unconstitutional and depoliticize the whole f*****g issue. To sum it all up, I like to quote Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman, "What we have here is a failure to communicate!".

Naif said...

To KijangMas:
I'm so tired of how politics have contaminated the whole discussion on Vernacular Schools. In any other country having a single stream school is a no brainer but here its defended as if its a holy war against the Malay horde hell bent on wiping out chinese/indian culture from the face of this land.

Perhaps a solution would be to streamline the Malay language in the whole of the Malay archipelago so that it becomes the same whether you're in Sulawesi or in Perlis. A herculean task that would involve Indonesian and Malaysian scholars but ultimately will lead to the commercialization of Bahasa Melayu. Not only will it be an incentive for foreigners to pick up the language but it will also lead to greater economic integration between the 2 countries.

Another solution, which I first came across in an article at M'kini, is to ammend the constitution so that Bahasa MALAYSIA becomes the national language of the country. It'll become "our" language and not just specifically belonging to Malays. Interesting thought, personally I agree with this idea wholeheartedly, but I foresee trouble brewing with the Dewan Pustaka boys.

And finally, perhaps we should reconsider going back to English as medium of instruction like in the the good old days. The pre-requisite of course would be to first close down vernacular schools or stop funding them with taxpayers money. The idea might not go down well with some people, but I want to remind them with this: Prior to switching the medium to Malay, had the government merely increased the number of English schools especially in rural areas (to increase access to malays) but retained the curriculum and English as the medium of instruction, and at the same time caved in to the demands of Chinese and Indians by letting them expand their vernacular schools, the situation today would be different. Malays would be fluent in English and their skills in demand globally, while the Chinese and Indians would be trapped in their own racial enclaves. Its still not too late, exposing English to school children (especially Malays) will liberate them from their insular minds. And while were in this discussion, maybe we should close down religious schools too.

Anonymous said...

May I say a few words on Naif’s comment addressed to KijangMas.

The article in Malaysiakini referred to is wrong if it doesn’t say that the Constitution already stipulates that Bahasa Malaysia is the National Language of the country and if it suggests any inadequacy that needs an amendment.

If so, it only reflects the kind of misinformation published in Malaysiakini and the public should be well aware of the risks in relying on such information.

Article 152 of the Constitution states

“152. (1) The national language shall be the Malay language and shall be in such script as Parliament may by law provide”

There’s no two-way about that. The word “shall” is, as the lawyers would point out, “mandatory”. It conveys a command, it means compulsory.

For now it is deemed mandatory to use Bahasa Malaysia for "official purposes" and schools are the official business of any country.

That vernacular schools, which existed since British colonial times, are allowed to continue until now has been the bone of contention among those wanting the single-stream system of education. It has allowed for three systems of education (Sekolah Kebangsaan, SJKC and SJKT) instead of just one for the sake of creating a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

The “Malay language” has been known as “Bahasa Malaysia” for a long time, propagated so by the Dewan Bahasa as well. It definitely is “our” language, the language of not only all Malaysian citizens but also of all other residents who wish to deal with the Government – its Ministries, Departments and the various agencies.

There was a lot of talk about standardizing Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia in the 1960s, pre and post formation of Malaysia in 1963. There was Bahasa Melayu Rhiau, spoken in that part of the Gugusan Pulau-Pulau Melayu or the Malay Archipelago comprising the Rhiau islands, southern Sumatra, Singapore and the southern half of Semenanjung Malaysia, that was used prior to then Minister of Education Anwar Ibrahim having Bahasa Baku used instead. Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka comes under the purview of the Ministry of Education and what the then Minister said, went.

Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia are basically the same and one wonders if there are substantial benefits in sandardising them. Perhaps it will be sufficient for the Government to implement Article 152 of the Constitution fully, by having one system of education, having the national-type schools merged with the national schools and teach Mandarin and Tamil as elective subjects. All these are incorporated in the Satu Sekolah Untuk Semua (SSS) Proposal and you are welcome to visit the Kempen SSS website for more details.

sepadu.

KijangMas said...

HuaYong (Jan.18, 2011 3:57 PM) said:-
"antubahasa ... instead of complaint and whining like a bitch, perhaps you should put in some effort to learn the language of your fellow citizen ..."

Why should he? Is this some kind of tit-for-tat maneuver, where "if you want me to learn your language then you must learn my language too"? I thought BM is the sole national language, the language of every MyCard-carrying Malaysian? Hence, there shouldn't be any reciprocity in the matter of the national language, where everyone owns it and must master it. Could Pres. Obama insist others "should put in some effort to learn the language" of his father, Swahili? Or Arnold SusahNakEja bitchin' about others "should put in some effort to learn the language" of his Austrian homeland, German? No. When they became Americans either by birth or naturalisation, they drop the legacy languages and proudly focus on English as they strive to fit in seamlessly.

HuaYong again:-
"... I suggest you do some reading on socio-politic and to understand the reality of our country, that is, we never embark on a assimilation process but uphold diversity as our policy."

Yes, and see what this policy of diversity has brought to this nation. Social cohesion? Unity of purpose? A shared identity? A shared destiny? No. None of these. All we have are chaos and confusion and endless racial politics and cyber-posturing as people like you, HuaYong, are helplessly alienated in your own country of birth. Adding to this social tragedy, you enhance your alienation by upholding and embellishing the very traits and lingua-cultural markers that impede your integration with the social mainstream.

So HuaYong, you think this policy of diversity works and suits your long-term interests?

More HuaYong:-
"... assimilation requires the absence of discrimination, absence of prejudice and absence of value power conflicts, which are not the case here in our country."

No. You got it all backwards. Didn't they teach human values and human nature at the SJKCs and the independent Chinese high schools?

Discrimination and prejudices are prevalent when we magnify our differences. This is basic instinctive behaviour of the animal kingdom, and the human species are not above it. A group conversing loudly in Uighur or Manchu on a Shanghai street would be stared upon in disgust by the Han Chinese. Chechen speakers are held with contempt and suspicion in Moscow. Azeris and Baluchis evoke irrational emotions among ethnic-Persians in Teheran. Whenever a group of young men speaks Patani Malay in Songkhla, the nervous Thai cop would warily and instinctively hold his gun holster. The examples are endless.

You must understand this rule of human nature that has prevailed since the emergence of human societies and nation states. You assimilate first, then you'll be accepted as "us" by the dominant society. A real life Malaysian example? Study the evolution of the mamak sub-group in Malay society. These muslims of Tamil and Keralan extraction adopted sufficient Melayu traits -- language, clothing, basic mannerisms -- for them to be accepted by the magnanimous Malays. Within 1-2 generations, these mamaks today (in their Melayu persona) play active roles in Malay Muslim politics, business, high society and are prominent bloggers as well.

The fighting-for-their-language-and-cultural-rights-to-the-death Chinese and Tamils have now been surpassed on the socio-political pecking order by these smart and practical mamaks.

--------

antubahasa (Jan.19, 2011 6:51 AM) said:-
"Well one thing hua yong, YOU ARE NOT MY FELLOW CITIZEN!!! You are chinese!!!"

So HuaYong, what can or should you do to dispel this type of sentiment?

Who do you blame?

The majority?

The government's diversity policy?

Najib's 1 Malaysia?

.
.
.
.
... or maybe it's just you?

HuaYong said...

Dot,

I believe corruption will happen sooner or later even if PR become the government, therefore the term of discussion and our aspiration shall not limit to BN or PR and instead shall emphasize on values.

We may criticize DAP and LKY for what they did in the past but the reality today is the political divide in Malaysia does not solely base on race, and DAP are not working alone, they join force with PKR and PAS, of which are both Malay / Muslim majority in pursuing their common goal. Is diversity part of their theme? My point of view is yes. Can diversity work, I don’t know yet but the fact is that there is substantial support to PR coalition, and if I don’t misread BN, they never reject diversity and from time to time declare that they uphold diversity, therefore which ideology is the mainstream? And the most ironic part is that the one that voice up against NEP is not confine to DAP. Hence I think if we limit our scope of discussion to DAP, MCA and race, it doesn’t reflect reality of our country.

I don’t know how to measure peace and harmony, if the first decade is really great, then how come it leads us to racial riot? If today is that awful with regards to peace and harmony, why both coalitions do have a relatively balance in mixture of race and ideology?

Everyone will have their own interpretation of what is “respect and live by the constitution fully”. I will not delve deep into this topic because the argument tends to become hostile eventually. Didn’t Nietzsche said “all things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” I think a closer scrutinize into the contemporary norm, values and belief system would make more sense.

Assimilation and integration is the core beliefs of twentieth century, I personally foresee such values are changing to adapt to a more globalize world. From a historical view, the pertinent question is why Malaysia never embarks on an assimilation process, or even a mild one like integration? The BN government has been in power for more than 50 years, and their absolute majority was only reduced recently during 308, therefore this could have something to do with our constitution, or our values and belief systems that don’t favor both assimilation and integration. For instance, both Thailand and Philippines have problem to integrate some segment of their people into one, and US and Europe facing the same.

My objective is to improve life quality and a more equal distribution of wealth. Pertaining to BM, as long as we could raise it status on par with English in term of commerce, education and technology, we will do fine. And to sepadu as well, I think Naif suggestion is a great one, would not the standardization help to make BM a widely spoken language? Mandarin get it status via quantity, and with economy might later; I am with great optimistic that Indonesia would have the same achievement.


KM,
You are right, it is a tit for tat maneuver. My response depends on what I read and the reciprocal tone of the writers and writings.


Naif,
It is not about being sensitive. Mtoday, Mkini and Minsider is partisan, if DM objective are the same, I will withdraw myself. KM the blogmaster writes well and sensible (if he wants to) and shape the direction of this blog, I just hope his writing could reach a wider audience not limited to the same group. Word like sekolah haram, ching cong qing qing would only chase away even the moderate type, so how to communicate? As for you, you may write whatever you want and I would never comment a single word on your writing style, as long as you are ready to face similar tune.

Btw, did you sense anything I wrote that disagree with your “main point”? I think I am just being more pragmatic and willing to confront the reality.

msleepyhead said...

HuaYong,

You must have wandered into the wrong blog. This is afterall 'the KM' that called vernacular schools a cancer to society. Boy, that was a wake up call to them. Asking KM to tone down would be like asking Dirty Harry to play good cop, who would want to watch that.

-----------------------------


On another note,

And looks like Chinese schools are here to stay! We all know why they were allowed to continue, for the political survival of MCA and also the "power sharing" concept of the BN to continue. The end of vernacular schools will see the end of race based politics, that's why in other forced-assimilation countries like Thailand and Indonesia quoted here, you don't see a race-based political system. Good and bad. So until UMNO is ready to be united Malaysians national organization, THEY will allow vernacular schools to continue, so let's not count on them. So are the majority (not just Malays) ready to take on DJZ and MCA? I guess not because there are more pressing bread and butter issues like inflation and cost of living to worry about.

KM said "A group conversing loudly in Uighur or Manchu on a Shanghai street would be stared upon in disgust by the Han Chinese. Chechen speakers are held with contempt and suspicion in Moscow..."

Sorry but this argument together with the Arnold one can't be really used here because as we know it, the Malay culture is not dominant enough to allow that to happen, and besides, the Uighur and Chechen examples are not applicable to Chinese Malaysians who will never plot a terrorist attack or even bother to blow themselves up. All they simply want is a stable society to prosper (often mistaken as greed).

Prosperity (coincidentally the theme of the season) is important, and like another KM example with Arnold, the language of prosperity at the moment is not Malay. That is why, like Arnold example, at MNCs English is THE language. But they Manglish speaking vernacular products can't still get away with it because MNCs want reliability and productivity.

For the mamak example, again it is not a true assimilation, it even hints of parasitism, can you imagine a group of people speaking the language required of them whenever necessary, i.e. politics, but the moment they reach home, they switch on Astro Thangathirai. Here the motivation is political and economical, and perhaps even a perceived elevated social status.

Food for thought.

HuaYong said...

Maju,

Of course your comment would not lead to any “constructive” criticism as you yet to make any, you are merely asking question and keep on mentioned do not understand.

My point is, if comments tend to be antagonistic, we shall not expect or hope there is any “change and shape peoples perspective, for instance, people like me (HuaYong).”

I am not talking logic, I am saying how you could convince the Chinese community that Mandarin will continue to be taught in a SSS, via a real life concrete model that would eliminate the mistrust. I would appreciate if you could enlighten me how your logic would help to achieve the same?

My “mainstream” is political base as I did mention I don’t fully grasp what is mainstream and in what aspect, perhaps you can give me your definition of mainstream?

We not yet attain the level whereby a “click” or a “nod” will change everything. This is both the good and bad of democracy. Otherwise why we continue to write, to communicate, to talk and to convince?

PS/ DM on my previous post shall be DN. Properly shall read probably. Sorry for the typo.

msleepyhead said...

Salam Dot,

Dot said ..”The Malays did not have a culture of amassing wealth, a tendency disliked by the Sultan and the nobility for “cuba melebihi Raja”.

And part of the reasons are:
As it is, under Malay rule ordinary folk cannot lift up their heads and enjoy themselves, and dare not show any originality for it is forbidden by the ruler. Wishing possibly to build themselves finely decorated houses of stone, they are afraid to do so. They are afraid to wear fine clothing, shoes and umbrellas in case these are taboo. They are afraid even to keep fine clothing in their houses because it is said that such things are the perquisites only of royalty. Rich men especially live in perpetual fear and are fortunate if their only losses are their belongings. For indeed their very lives are in danger. Means are found whereby such men may be penalised and mulcted of their belongings. If a man is reluctant to lend any of his most cherished possessions, it is accounted a serious offence. And once he has given them up they are lost forever. He will never see them again. A beautiful young girl in his house is like a raging poison, for it is quite certain that the ruler will take her as one of his wives with or without her guardian's permission. This practice more than any other arouses the hatred of the servants of Allah. I heard of one courageous man who refused to part with his daughter. The ruler ordered him to be murdered on some pretext, and then took the child away. All such acts as these are forbidden by Allah and His Prophet and incur the censure of mankind throughout the world. There is only one being who looks with favour upon them; the Devil, the enemy of Allah, who, in company with all his followers will be consumed in the eternal flames of hell. (source: Hikayat Abdullah by Munshi Abdullah bin Abdul Kadir, 1849)

I fully agree with you that different cultures evolve differently and we can't say that one is better than the other, just simply that in the modern world some cultures are more adept at prospering, making technological advancements, launch space explorations and such.

A culture is just the collective behaviour of a group of people, so if like Syed Akbar Ali observed in his latest post..

Surah 13:11 "..GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change."

unless the culture wants something collectively, only will they achieve it.

In our context, I have previously mentioned about the clash of cultures, the Chinese wants prosperity (some call it material greed) and they achieve it through education, business and even through illegal means but that is allowed within their cultural limits unlike the specified rigidity of Islam's way of life. In the worldly life they observe filial piety, sacrificing for the future of their children so that in return at old age, it is reciprocated and in the afterlife, offerings are made through paper burnings. But that is just the Confucian-Taoist Chinese, the ones that have adopted the book, would obviously be similar to Muslims in their spiritual outlook.

The Chinese, to their credit has never tried to influence the Malays either by missionary work or even try to exploit the natural resources like the Westerners did. Perhaps that is why in the early days, the Malays were so accommodating of them - just like A Kadir Jasin mentioned that pigs from the neighbouring Chinese's wandered into his grandma's backyard, but it wasn't an issue back then. Only in the present day, when we are trying to build a Malaysian identity that we are all facing cultural identity problems.

HuaYong said...

KM,

“Why should he?”
There are 35 million Spanish speakers in US and no one can force you to learn or not to learn a ‘foreign’ language, be it Spanish, Mandarin, Arab or French. In the Malaysia context and to put it into the sole national language perspective, English is actually a ‘foreign’ language. Therefore I don’t see why we need to get so upset if some of us do speak ‘foreign’ language. However, I do agree that we need to improve and to cultivate a norm that makes BM a must on many occasions.

“Social cohesion? Unity of purpose? A shared identity? A shared destiny? No. None of these. All we have are chaos and confusion and endless racial politics and cyber-posturing as people like you,”
On what basis you work out your assessment and how you arrive with such conclusion? Does Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia have a relatively better social cohesion, unity of purpose, shared identity and shared destiny if compare against us? Or the basis you said the above is because I disagree with you?

“A group conversing loudly in Uighur or Manchu on a Shanghai street would be stared upon in disgust by the Han Chinese.”
I think you are referring to the chauvinist type Han Chinese. It is a well known fact in China that Shanghainese prefer to speak their own dialect, just like what happen to Hong Kongers, and those from Guangzhou that don’t speak Mandarin. A 2006 survey disclosed that 40% Chinese don’t speak or can’t speak standard Mandarin. Therefore what cause peoples to stare is perhaps the Uighur and Manchu spoke too loud. The real life example you cite has everything to do with religion.

“So HuaYong, what can or should you do to dispel this type of sentiment?”
I personally think we must first learn to embrace differences and continue seeking for common values. At the same time, expand wealth and economy, improve governance and achieve goal of equitable distribution of wealth.

KM, I am not entirely opposed to your idea and SSS, we were almost there in the seventies when more than 50% Chinese kids went into NS. Something is wrong somewhere and we have a hard time to turn back. Most of my friend that with NS back ground share the same feeling but all their kids is now in VS. It is too simplistic and naïve (borrow Dot term) just to tell we want SSS. To blame this and that would not solve the issue, and that is why I am here to learn more from everyone.

John Cena said...

Ini Troll Week ka?

HuaYong is a confirmed troll and the formerly level-headed msleepyhead also fast becoming one.

Must be the floods lah!

KijangMas said...

Semerah Padi said:-
"Mungkin telah sampai masanya, kita orang-orang Melayu belajar perangai KURANG AJAR dan BIADAP pendatang-pendatang ini, supaya dapat kita "deal" dgn mereka-mereka ini tanpa lemah lembut sopan santun lagi. Mereka ini tidak pernah mengenal erti puas, kalau dibiarkan sejengkal mereka akan gelojoh mengaut sehasta."

Ya, dan hujah-hujah mereka di blog ini melambangkan sikap "diberi sejengkal mau kaut sehasta" yang utuh tertanam dalam hati sanubari makhluk-makhluk ini.

Saya memberi kebebasan sepenuhnya kepada mereka untuk berbincang disini. Tapi apa yang kita dapat? Alasan demi alasan dan segala macam helah dan muslihat dihidangkan oleh mereka agar suasana sosio-budaya aneh yang menyelubungi negara kita sejak merdeka dikekalkan. Intipati penulisan mereka disini berlandaskan kepada kedegilan mereka untuk terus berkiblat kepada negara-negara asing serta sikap mengagungkan bahasa dan budaya negara-negara asing tersebut walaupun mereka lahir, hidup, bernafas, cari makan, beranak-pinak dan akan mati di negara ini

Sebaliknya, beranikah blog-blog sekutu mereka memberi ruang kepada pendapat dan pendirian warga patriotik yang menegakkan Rukunegara dan Bahasa Kebangsaan dan pembentukan suatu Bangsa Malaysia yang benar-benar bersatu?

Tidak.

Mereka akan delete dan tong sampahkan semua komen yang bercanggah dengan pemikiran songsang mereka. Tiada toleransi dikalangan makhluk ini, dan ini amat ketara disitus-situs seperti M2Day, M'sian Insider, Malaysiakini dan blog-blog subversif kendalian penyokong DAP, PKR dan sekutu mereka.

Mungkin "perangai KURANG AJAR dan BIADAP pendatang-pendatang ini" harus kita tonjolkan disini agar makhluk-makhluk ini dibangkitkan dari alam sosio-budaya khayalan sementara yang mereka nikmati hingga kini.

--------

NJ said:-
"Negara ini terasnya "Melayu". Melayu, bagi saya dalam hal ini, bermakna orang Melayu, Bumiputera dan orang asli. Apabila mereka ini menerima kehadiran orang cina dan india, maka Tanah Melayu pun bertukar menjadi Malaysia ... Teras negara ini adalah Melayu yang diserikan oleh cina dan india (umumnya). Malaysia bukan lagi Melayu hakiki, tetapi tentu sekali Malaysia itu BUKAN cina atau india. Di sini Malaysia. Di sana India dan China. Pilihlah tempat masing-masing yang secocok dengan citarasa sendiri."

Tetapi masalahnya, sdr NJ, ialah mereka ini mahu bermastautin dibumi bertuah Malaysia tetapi berteraskan keCinaan dan keIndiaan yang setotok-totoknya.

Inilah teras segala permasalahan sosio-politik yang melanda tanah air kita sejak Merdeka lagi.

ikhwan said...

Sorry KM, may I comment a little bit on this subject to msleepyhead;

msleepyhead,

You tickle me a little bit there when you said "the Malay culture is not dominant enough to allow that to happen"

As for the rest of other one language nations such as the supposedly great China, the one language usage apparently was naturally occurring due to the dominant factor of the main language.

Is this the case? or perhaps a better explanation of this is because of the "forced dominant" approach that those country practice?

Is the Uighur or the Tibetan people merely speak Mandarin due to supposedly superior or dominant position of Mandarin? Or is it forced upon them?

Yeah, I guess they love the language (Mandarin) so much so such that they want it solely for themselves and That is why they are trying to kill the Han Chinese?

Is this why the Chinese Indonesian abandoned their "superior/dominant" Mandarin in lieu of Indonesian language? Because the Indonesion culture/language is dominant enough???

You have given me a very good laugh indeed there.

Now with your "and besides, the Uighur and Chechen examples are not applicable to Chinese Malaysians who will never plot a terrorist attack or even bother to blow themselves up" in reply to KM "A group conversing loudly in Uighur or Manchu on a Shanghai street would be stared upon in disgust by the Han Chinese"

My comment:

Yeah supposedly they are not “staring in disgust” because of their usage of other than their national language but supposedly because they are suspected terrorist! Supposedly….

Now what about that White Aussie that has been complaining in disgust about the two waitress of non white Aussie that has been conversing in foreign language while serving him coffee??? (This has been posted in the MX newspaper, Sydney which I have reposted in this comment section.)

It is clear there that it is not because that those two waitresses were wearing belt of suicide bombs but simply because of the use of other language.

And what about my chinese work mate here in Australia (who have spoken Mandarin loudly among themselves) has been given a stern advise by my white bosses to use English? Not to mention about those disgust stare that my other “white” work mate has given them!

The issue is simple and clear. Why are you still coming up with all this ridiculous excuse after one and another?

Do you want this country to practice “force dominant” as well?

The problem with the MALAY is that they have always been too soft. This is what they get in return.

And lastly with your statement "All they (Ultrakiasu Chinese) simply want is a stable society to prosper (often mistaken as greed)."

hahaha....this must be another one of your joke? I guess what you really want to say is that "All they (the ultrakiasu chinese) want is money, money and more money (often masked as wanting prosper)!

Correct???

Anonymous said...

HuaYong 12.05 PM,

Some do not wish to talk about the past but we should do so to draw lessons from and to avoid the same pitfalls in the future.

Today DAP may not be working alone, but they maintain their pre-PR political stand and policies without substantial changes. Lim Kit Siang harshly said "Never" to PAS' plan on Hukum Hudud, and Karpal Singh vehemently uttered "Over my dead body" to it.

PAS is Malay but PKR is mixed (a high ranking Indian has just bolted from the Party) and " and I don't understand the sentence "they are both Malay / Muslim majority in pursuing their common goal."

You yourself don't know if "diversity work" and I don't know of any country that has a long history of multi-languages, "multi nations within a nation" (Dhong Zhong leader's words), multi streams of schooling until today, except Malaysia.

Statements about diversity from UMNO has been mainly if not entirely from DS Najib and they were very much vote-catching, including the financial grants to Chinese schools at almost every by-election before Tenang. Tenang was a pretty safe BN constituency so the vote-catching gimmick did not appear.

If by saying "the one that voice up against NEP is not confine to DAP" you are referring to the MCA endorsing one private seminar resolution asking for the Bumiputera equity target be abolished, you should know that it was a sense of desperation due to the DAP stand on Malay issues in the past and in recent times.

MCA lost votes in 2008. They appeared to want to try and get back votes that they think ran away to DAP racist policies. But voters ran away largely because they disliked Tun Abdullah's rule in general.

We must be concerned about long-term unity and prosperity. Anything that affects that must be discussed. There's no need to "measure peace and harmony". We can just tell that from the first decade after Merdeka there was no race riots. "How come it leads us to racial riot?" The racist stand of the DAP. The so-called malaysian malaysia hogged by DAP, wanting equality without acknowledging the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak. Inflammatory speeches and writings during the 1969 General Elections campaigning and the highly racist election victory celebrations.

"Why both coalitions do have a relatively balance in mixture of race and ideology?" One History Professor said, throughout the history of mankind, theory always differs from practice.

Yes, the problem lies in unacceptable interpretation of, even plainly not accepting, the Constitution. For example the Constitution says clearly Bahasa Malaysia is the National Language, other languages may be used other than for official purposes, schools are the official business of any country, yet people don't want to go to national schools with Bahasa Malaysia as the medium of instruction where Mandarin and Tamil can be learnt as elective subjects.

I think you have quoted Nietzsche's statement out of context. The Constitution has been debated and passed by Parliament at Merdeka and at the formation of Malaysia. In truly democratic fashion. There's no such thing as “interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth”.

I'll address your other points when time permits.

Dot.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong,

I agree with your statement , "Assimilation and integration is the core beliefs of twentieth century" but you need to clarify the part, "I personally foresee such values are changing to adapt to a more globalize world."

I believe we have a huge problem of assimilation and integration, based on the Constitution of our own country first, and the values inherent in the Constitution are universal. Equality in this country must take into account of the Special Position of the Malays and Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak. The Constitution that includes Clause 153 was adopted in Parliament via a universally accepted democratic process which has been globally recognized, Malaya and later malaysia was a full-fledged member of the United Nations, and what else does anybody want.

The Oxford dictionary says

assimilate = 1. Make like (to, with); (now rare) compare (to, with); absorb into the system (lit. & fig.); (intr.) be so absorbed

integrate1 = Made up of parts; whole, complete

integrate2 = Complete (imperfect thing) by addition of parts; combine (parts) into a whole

I insist that the system referred to in the definition is that which respects and abides by the Constitution fully. "Combine" means with the other elements of that system. And "into a whole" means a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia.

What "From a historical view" are you talking about by asking "why Malaysia never embarks on an assimilation process, or even a mild one like integration"? Right from the word go, the then Malayan government issued citizenship certificates with relaxed language proficiency tests, expecting the non-Malays to return the gesture by adopting the Malay Language fully but many did not. Then the Government conducted National Language campaigns for decades since the 1960s yet the Dhong Zhong stuck to Chinese schools and talked about "multi nations within a nation". This is one of the things they mean when people talk about some Malaysians being ungrateful.

The BN government has been trying persuasion, conciliation and voluntary assimilation and integration. And you don't seem to appreciate that it has not done the forceful Thai, Indonesian or Filipino methods. Why are you saying the BN "has been in power for more than 50 years, and their absolute majority was only reduced recently during 308" implying they did not take stern assimilation and integration measures. Are you implying they should?

And I think it is mischievous to suggest that "this could have something to do with our constitution". When you said "our values and belief systems that don’t favor both assimilation and integration", I think "our" there means the small percentage of the population who do not accept the role of Bahasa Malaysia, the idea of leveling the playing field etc for racial harmony and unity in this country.

Good that you acknowledge that even "Thailand and Philippines have problem to integrate some segment of their people into one, and US and Europe facing the same." Are you now suggesting the Constitution and the value systems of the US are also faulty or deficient, not the value systems of those who huddle themselves in a closed group and maintain their own values in the Chinatowns all across the US and Europe?

Good that your objective is to improve life quality and a more equal distribution of wealth. But you are wrong in saying that "as long as we could raise (BM) status on par with English in term of commerce, education and technology, we will do fine." Are you saying never mind Article 152 of the Constitution?

Please note that I'm not putting words into your mouth but am asking you.

Dot.

HuaYong said...

John Cena,

The most incredible feature of your comment is that it is short but still got it all wrong. I respond and I reply.

If you lack capacity to understand basic English, go get a tuition teacher, don’t blame the flood.

Anonymous said...

Hi KMas. U getting too soffft with these anti national trolls laa. Blast them the way you whack their kinds in the past laa. Tis vernacular educ. trolls can only be shaped with brute force. And where can they understand long explanations one? Their attention span only 35 secs maa .. dats how long these sotong lengchais lasts .. hahaha. TNS CCB.


Nick Azeez Al-Seliparia

Anonymous said...

Salam msleepyhead,

The excesses of the past by way of acts and omissions are humongous. In a few hundred years from now (if mankind survives that long), people would be aghast at what they have and have not done. Munshi Abdullah was associating with, and was exposed to, the ways of life and the value systems of the British – he was commissioned to write/ do translation work by the British on a number of occasions. He did espouse “Western values” and did not escape criticism by those steeped in the Malay adat.

Yes, we should emulate foreign cultures on scientific and technological advancement. After all, the West also used knowledge about mathematics, medicine etc from the Islamic Golden Age that lasted some 500 years from the 8th to the 13th Century. China is now emerging as a technologically advanced nation and we can learn from them. So long as we keep within the limits, for example, not vouching that Mandarin must be learnt by all on account of that, and Bahasa Malaysia must be the medium of instruction of all schools which allow the study of Mandarin as an elective subject.

True, Surah 13:11 says ".. GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change." But we have to change for the better. China changed with a revolution to the communist system and later Mao Zedong had another, so-called “Cultural Revolution”, which, with a failed “Great Leap Forward” economic policy caused some 30 million Chinese dead. Lucky we did not change the Chin Peng or Parti Komunis Malaya way or turned into military rule, or even a protracted National Operations Council rule assisted by the Military, after racial riots occurred in 1969. We as Malaysians need to change into a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia. To get there, no other way but by respecting and following the Constitution fully. Once everybody accepts that then issues of Bahasa Malaysia and of leveling the playing field will disappear. Then the “wanting collectively” will take its full course.

Note that the Malays are already on course, whatever the speed. But asking the Bumiputera equity target be abolished etc are causing hiccups. It already has brought the reaction of asking the citizenship right of those concerned be also abolished.

I’m not sure if the “illegal means .. of wanting prosperity (some call it material greed) and they achieve it through education, business .. allowed within their cultural limits” can be tolerated. There must be the rule of law, always. Some may escape the law but a crime is a crime and no such thing as “allowed within their cultural limits”.

Dot.

(Continued)

Anonymous said...

(Continuation)

msleepyhead,

I’m not sure what you meant by “unlike the specified rigidity of Islam's way of life”. All religions are subject to interpretation. Hence you have so many branches, sects and sub-groups in all religions. The Protestants alone have some 140 sub-groups. In Malaysia the Constitution provides for the YDP Agong and the Malay Rulers to interprete Islam, on the advice of the the Islamic Religious Council and the Muftis.

It has been determined that Sunni is the Islamic teaching allowed and Imam Ghazali is the Imam to be followed. Hukum Hudud is not implemented despite PAS wanting it. Nothing wrong with Islamic teaching or even the Islamic way of life in this country. Only that some people interprete it as needing the Hudud way which, if implemented, will bring a lot of problems in a multi-racial country like Malaysia.

Good that the Chinese have never tried to influence the Malays religion wise. But how I wish they have and will influence the Malays in business and in the running of the economy. The Chinese have been controlling the economy of the country all this while. Why not help the Malays, guide them, break the monopolies here and there in the production and distribution system, etc, instead of wanting to subvert the Malay Special Position (DAP so-called malaysian malaysia slogan) or asking for abolition of the Bumiputera equity target (MCA seminar resolution).

You have yourself noted “Perhaps that is why in the early days, the Malays were so accommodating of them”. They still are now, with varying degrees . The Ali Babas are still aplenty. The Babas should really guide the Alis to carry out the contracts together, instead of doing them as sub-contractors. There should be “balas budi” and a two-way social intercourse.

Dot.

msleepyhead said...

Correction:
January 31, 2011 12:11 PM

But they Manglish speaking vernacular products can still get away with it because MNCs want reliability and productivity.

--------------

I can only speak for myself that my comments are strictly antagonistic because it offers the opposite point of view and are most of the time based on real life observations around me. Just because we are KM fanboys doesn't mean we keep saying yeah! and hi-five ourselves, with no opposing views how can there be a debate. And KM has always been gracious and generous enough to allow dissenting views to go through. Afterall, our IPs are recorded.

I have urged the SSS group to file a class action lawsuit, and would gladly contribute to the funds. This is the only way for people like us to take action, seeing that the actual political situation protects the vernacular school system. Similarly, the government machinery is Malay, so who's stopping them from enforcing the Language Act or even way of doing things.

We can argue on and on about the Constitution and how it should be followed but then people also talk about the intangible 'Social Contract'.

But why worry actually, with the increasing Malay/Bumiputera majority and a dwindling Other Malaysian population, it is only a matter of time, isn't it?

*Thanks for your views Dot, your articulations is always a pleasure to read.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
___________________________________
In the Malaysia context and to put it into the sole national language perspective, English is actually a ‘foreign’ language. ___________________________________

My comment on this:

Talking about English. Who told you that everybody here agree or accept this?

I am not sure about others or KM, but I myself surely are upset with the current "use" of English in Malaysia.

I am actually not really upset with its appropriate usage as a second language or for international communication purpose but what I am upset is the inferiority complex that it bring about to the general Malaysian.

And for that sake, if someday, China become a dominant and internationally mandarin is adopted as the international language then I am more than happy to adopt it as my own second language.

The important principle in this is that it (whatever the international language it maybe) can only be a SECOND LANGUAGE as for our context here in MALAYSIA and it cannot exceed the status of B.Malaysia itself.

The excessive usage such that it (appears)to exceeds our own national language is totally unacceptable to me. The thing that make me more upset is that some Malaysian could even contemplate to think or to express opinion stating that the B.Malaysia language is not sufficient in order for knowledge and business advancement??? I totally cannot comprehend this. If the Malaysian themselves don't believe in their own language than who else???

I am just sad with this. This actually warrant a different topic which I am not at liberty to discuss here for the moment.

Now let us look at another of HuaYong statement:
"Therefore I don’t see why we need to get so upset if some of us do speak ‘foreign’ language"

HuaYong,

I think you missed the point here. What is really upsetting people is when you; a Malaysian citizen by IC and after 53 years of Merdeka could not converse fluently in the B.Malaysia. This is the reality and what is being happening. And speaking in foreign language in the public place (when you are in fact claiming yourself a Malaysian) is naturally rude as you can see from response of the majority including the Aussies that I have mentioned before.

Nobody are ever going to be upset if those that speak foreigns language are the tourist. Remember, the different is between citizen and tourist.

And let me state my own opinion clearly; Nobody (for surely me) are forcing anybody else to use their language. It is up to the individual themselves. But you must remember the consequences of this: which is you will not be accepted by the majority, you will keep yourself in isolation, in your own little cave and keep on dreaming of having a "nation with nation"

Nobody is asking for one to forget their own language or culture. I will back you up if anybody ask you to do this. In fact please preserve your own language and culture. I urge you to do so.

However this must be done while still preserving and demonstrating our national language B.Malaysia as the main language of this country.

Anonymous said...

Hallo HuaYong, lu boleh cakap dan tulis Melayu@Bahasa Malaysia ka?

Gua rasa lu bukan orang Malaysia. Lu hanya rakyat ciplak.

Gua mau tengok lu tulis dalam Bahasa Malaysia.

Boleh ka?

Kalau tak boleh, confirm lu bukan rakyat Malaysia.



-SJB-

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead said (in reply to KM):
___________________________________
"the language of prosperity at the moment is not Malay. That is why, like Arnold example, at MNCs English is THE language. But they Manglish speaking vernacular products can still get away with it because MNCs want reliability and productivity."
__________________________________

My comment:

Note that the word "prosperity" in the paragraph above can easily be replaced with "Money".

Again "greed" that being masked as "prospers".

One thing about the terms "MANGLISH" presumably this refers to "Malaysian English". I absolutely disagree with this term as it is actually referring to the very specific Malaysian-Chinese English accent/structure not the general malaysian. So the right term should really be "Chinglish" or whatever else.

I know that some Malay (probably a lot) speak the same way of english as well but this is due to their over exposure (thus contamination occur) to those vernakular product.

The Malay-English has its own distinctive accent as well so let us not get them mixed with the chinese-english accent which I dont really like.

Now with the stigma/perception that MNC (multi national corporation) preferring vernakular product (presumably chinese) due to their productivity??? Reliability???

Heck if this is the case, then the better off hiring the Indonesians which are a lot more hard working, reliable and also cheap!

Perhaps it has got to do with the shared culture of the drinking??? more of western life style??? etc...etc....

In the early days, the chinese were way ahead of the Malays in terms of knowledge and business opportunity...As such they sought this MNC or the MNC grab them to head their branch in Malaysia. You see they have the upper hand since them when they keep on circulating the lead position to their own races even though they are Malays that are more capable and could out perform them in their task. Due to this racist culture, you see the chinese people continue to dominate the MNC till this day!

I am working with an MNC here in Australia and within 4 years of working, I have been promoted to the highest position in my own department and no 3 in terms of the overall management. I dont think I would be in this position had I continued working with those racist-chinese lead MNC in Malaysia that I used to work before!

And by the way, there are a lot of manglish-vernakular product speaker here as well. I tell you what; it is so hard for this white people to communicate with them! Are they any better than me???It is as if it is a totally different language to them that has got nothing to do with English.

Regards

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

Thanks for the pleasant words.

I agree that "without opposing views how can there be a debate. And KM has always been gracious and generous enough to allow dissenting views to go through."

I think your kind of views and manner of putting them out are normal and acceptable. Just that, as you said, you have opposing views. There have been the very crude, rude, uncouth and utterly racist comments I have seen even in the Kempen SSS blog in the past. And they have published them there as well, to show the kind of irresponsible, anti-unity people we have in this country. With replies and counter-arguments, of course.

Perhaps there are those so compassionate about their stand against such people that they express their views here in definite and strong terms, too.

I admire your stand on the SSS and welcome it as a fellow supporter. I believe the time will come when it'll be opportune and practical for the SSS to start taking offline measures. Let us wait for the opportune time and continue to promote it online for the time being.

But I've been wondering what you meant by "the intangible 'Social Contract'". Perhaps after the Chinese New Year merry making you'd like to explain for us to discuss.

Meanwhile, Happy Chinese New Year to you. And to HuaYong and other Chinese readers of Demi Negara as well.

Dot.

Naif said...

Off topic: I've seen quite a few Arsenal references here and in the past. KM are you a Gooner? What do u think of our chances this season?

HuaYong said...

ikhwan,

I would say you last post address to me is pretty fair and sensible.

Dot wrote “But you are wrong in saying that "as long as we could raise (BM) status on par with English in term of commerce, education and technology, we will do fine." Are you saying never mind Article 152 of the Constitution?”

I think both you and Dot misunderstood my point. What I am saying is that English is actually the lingua franca in commerce, education and technology (in Malaysia, can you deny that?), unless we take step to improve / raise BM (or lessen the use of English) to that stature (in reality, not constitution), otherwise the criticism of other language usage is merely a red herring.

I admit that I can’t speak fluent BM but I have no issue to communicate with every Malay that I meet, I smoke, eat and talk badminton with them during break, however I don’t formerly use BM in most occasion because everyone use English. And my BM is getting worsen along the years. I don’t know if that is my fault.

I am not missing the point, my original reply is direct to one and only one, sometime emotion rule.

More or less, I agree with most of your writing except the Aussie part. What make you think the white scum have the rights to complain? Where the hell this scum came from? You shall put in some deep thought first before we debate further.

I notice you all like to talk about Tibet and Uighur, but I doubt your knowledge on China, Tibet and Uighur is good enough for such discussion. First of all, on education, both Tibet and Uighur study most of the subject in their original language, and to be fair to the Tibetan, they are the indigenous so I don’t see anything wrong with that, whether Uighur is native of Xinjiang remain doubtful. And China is relatively liberal in term of policy (generally and compare against Han) towards minority, the killing / riot is saddening and complex, in China, it is very hard to get a job if you can’t speak Mandarin. My point is, what China / CCP did doesn’t make what we did is right, or wrong. Personally, I disagree with CCP policy more than I agree.


SJB,

Kalu gua cakap dan tulis dalam BM pun tak boleh buktikan apa apa, kelakar la gua baca tulisan hang, gua rasa hang punya otak talak betul, pi hang pegi jumpa doctor, doctor otak. Untuk pengetahuan hang, gua punya favorite bacaan termasul OpEd, H.Rais dan Mat Saman Kati. Diam diam la baca kalu substance talak, jangan malukan diri, bangsa dan negara.


Dot thanks. ‘Deal’ with you later. Enjoy ‘our’ holiday.

KijangMas said...

HuaYong (Jan.20, 2011 2:18 AM) said:-
"So when you rally support for a policy by appealing to nationalistic urges, you also encourage an equal and opposite nationalistic response on the opposite side. That’s human nature."

You implying there is an alternative "nationalism" for your group above and beyond Malaysian nationalism?

Like this how?

You inviting others to suspect your patriotism yet again?

Ok man, do tell us what exactly is this "opposite nationalistic response" your dwindling community can impose on this country called Malaysia? Tell us, what exactly are the plausible punitive "nationalistic" actions your group can take in this country in light of the "nationalistic urges" evoked by blogs such as DN?

Folks, are we reprising Yap Sin Tian's multi-nation state ideology yet again with his disciple here?


More HuaYong:-
"So KM, you can continue with your tit for tat masterpiece. The question is who will buy it?"

Buy?

I'm sellin' you nothin' man.

On the contrary, you are the one who now needs to sell us on why we should even consider you a fellow rakyat of this country since you are so incompatible with everything this country stands for, in terms of self-image, patriotism, language priority and social conduct.

Sadly for you, the act of peddling your ware here pushes you deeper into the proverbial butthole.

But in a perverse way, you are of value here in DN. You are living proof of Malaysia's failed social diversity experiment of the past 53 years. This diversity has mutated into malignant mutual distinction, where the minority groups have used their "diverseness" not as the outer parameters from which they come closer to forge commonalities with the country's majority and founding race BUT as staging points to hurtle further towards an alienised existence devoid of any lingua-cultural traits that would endear them to the socio-political mainstream of this nation.

Like this susahlah.

KijangMas said...

Adam (Jan.20, 2011 6:38 PM) said:-
"My concern is that the Demi Negara community here aren't using their 'writing well' capabilities to persuade the Chinese Malaysians or Indian Malaysians to feel more Malaysian. Persuasion works better than brute force."

Where did you get this "brute force" idea man? You actually believe the nons have been subjected to "brute force" here in DN and Malaysian society in general?

Look, the only "brute force" applied in Malaysian cyberspace has been by the anti-national, anti-Malay subversive blogs and news portals where even mildly dissenting Malay Muslim opinion are deleted wholesale or "voted down" or subject to crude "brute force" abuse ("UMNO dogs" ... "ignorant kampung Malays" ... etc.) by intolerant nons hiding behind some sense of cyber-empowerment. A Malay version of HuaYong won't see the light of day in those sites.

Go read history. Find out what "Thai Ratthaniyom" is all about, and have some idea what happened to the ethnic-Chinese in Indonesia in 1965-66 and 1998. Even China itself had to resort to "brute force" to streamline its social order at the cost of millions of lives. China would have been a loose collection of a dozen warring states speaking innumerable languages and dialects if not for the "brute force" imposed by an all-powerful central authority led by successive despotic emperors down to Mao Zedong and his Great Leap Forward that caused tens of millions of Chinese deaths.

For starters, read this (scroll up to pg. 151 to start) and watch this. Also read this and this.

As for Malaysia, what has this nation done with these people for the past 53 years? Did the authorities used "brute force" to compel them to do anything? On the contrary, these people have been pampered all their lives here for the past 2-3 generations since Merdeka.

Unconstitutional vernacular schools would long ago ceased to exist if the government had resorted to brute force a la Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam.

Read history and you'll realise that Malaysia's treatment of her nons is an anomaly, a one-off, a fluke in the global scheme of things. Malaysia stands alone in this world as the softest, weakest and most disoriented nation when it comes to the synthesization of its disparate social milieu. Najib's magnification of the ethno-linguistic distinctions via his fuzzy 1 Malaysia is the latest, most perverted incarnation of this continuing policy incoherence. As long as this soft approach persists, we'll continue to bear the heavy social costs as more HuaYongs are minted by the SJKCs and independent Chinese high schools.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
___________________________________
What make you think the white scum have the rights to complain? Where the hell this scum came from? You shall put in some deep thought first before we debate further.
___________________________________

My reply; I know where you are going with this. FYI, I dont have to give it a deep thought. I presumed by above you want to lead us to the question of "pendatang" and that white Aussie people are also "pendatang" therefore they dont have the right to question other language usage in Australia and by that you are also trying to imply the argument as similar thing to the Malay???

Is this correct???

Luckily and fortunately the answer to the above has long been clarified and posted in previous posting in this DN blog. Please go and read them and come back to have another debate with me.

If you go back further in time, everybody is "pendatang". Nobody is indigenous to any soil! So the question, in the modern context; who is pendatang? what or which should be national language?

Please go and read previous KM posting.

FYI, I didnt say that the action of the white Aussie there is correct nor that I say it is wrong. What I simply trying to demonstrate there is that it is only natural for a community of a nation to feel irritate when a fellow citizen speaks in a foreign language. These trait is almost common to all nation including Malaysia. Do I have to quote you the German story as well???

And KM said (to HuaYong): "Ok man, do tell us what exactly is this "opposite nationalistic response" your dwindling community can impose on this country called Malaysia?"

HuaYong,

I think I can answer this for you. Can I?

I guess that other "opposite nationalistic response" is the "Nationalistic of the Greater China."

Correct?

Just be frank so that everybody here could see where you "patriotism" really lies!

msleepyhead said...

Salam Dot and others,

After all the discussions here and going through the KM archives, it is clear to me that the single one thread that runs through all of the articles is a call for the Other Malaysians to use BM in schools (end vernacular schools) and also to use BM prominently in the public space, even for non-Malays conversing privately. And the sole argument being used is that it is what the Constitution says, apart from it being the right thing to do as a rakyat.

That single-minded mission above is fine and noble but at the same time what I also noticed here is that we seem to ignore the socio-economical-political realities. Or refuses to deal with that directly.

Disclaimer: This is KM's blog, it is only right he decides on the sole mission of it. His nationalistic tirades are always good read.

Thanks for the wishes, Happy CNY to those celebrating and happy holidays to everyone.
--------------

ikhwan,
thanks for sharing your personal experience and success. fully agree with you that a strong and clear communication in the office is important. it appears that the country is a losing a great talent like you, i hope the talent corp will recruit you.

thought i'd share this link because i think there is a number of malaysian diaspora that visit DN:

the nitty gritty details of the Talent Corp recruitment.

and i sure hope the intellectuals like Dot, maju, sepadu, satD and the rest of you are in the country or will be to help us achieve 2020.

though, Syed Akbar Ali predicts that we may see the current Arab street-style protests in five to ten years time. hopefully he is wrong.

Anonymous said...

Hua Yong,

Unable to reply earlier but here goes a response to your 31 Jan 2011, 1.04 PM comment:

As to your point that I have not yet made any constructive criticism, I wish to point out that my 29 Jan 2011, 11.45 AM comment was, in fact, constructive. Giving reasons as to why those in the DN community wrote “sokong”, “bagus” etc would have made readers understand the reasons for such statements and would, ordinarily, have made them move on to bringing out other points that would contribute further to the discussions. Instead, you laboured on the same, and it necessitated the following 2-3 paragraphs, as another attempt to make you understand and have the kind of snide remarks you put out buried for the sake of more meaningful discussions.

One would have expected the ordinary person to ask himself why others ask many questions on what he wrote. More importantly, he should have appreciated that I asked questions, instead of assuming what you meant and starting to reply off-tangent or making snide remarks and insinuations to your comment.

Especially when the intent or the meaning is not clear. Like saying, “To me, Chinese language is my language, it has nothing to do with Liaoning, Hunan, Hebei and Fujian, and there is no law yet to prohibit us for using our language.” Your reply does not “help to bridge the gap”. One doesn’t even know what gap you are talking about.

I am satisfied that there are others who also do not understand what you meant, as shown by 1-2 other comments following yours.

I maintain the validity of my asking what you meant by saying “What you read here and there and everywhere about SSS are all talks, the instant perception come to mind is that the premise of the whole concept is to close down VS first. Sepadu talk about Mandarin and Tamil but do you see this being implemented successfully in any SK yet? .. Does he mean let vernacular schools continue until Sekolah Kebangsaan can “implement the teaching of Mandarin and Tamil successfully” first?

Clearly the above statements of yours need justification or, at least, clarification as to what you mean.

Maju.

(See Part 2)

Anonymous said...

Part 2

Hua Yong,

As to your statement “if comments tend to be antagonistic, we shall not expect or hope there is any “change and shape peoples perspective, for instance, people like me (HuaYong)”, you are entitled to your opinion, but let others decide for themselves. As KijangMas has pointed out, thare are all sorts of people out there and it requires all sorts of ways of dealing with them. Hence you have the Sedition Act, the Police Act and even the Internal Security Act.

Since Article 152 of the Constitution on the National Language has not been respected for 54 years, some citizens may want to express their feelings in more passionate ways. Many would think it’s not a matter of “convince(ing) the Chinese community that Mandarin will continue to be taught in a SSS via a real life concrete model”. But it’s a matter of the Chinese respecting and adhering to the Constitution and realizing the need for harmony and long term unity in this country.

And what “eliminate the mistrust” are you referring to?

You asked me to explain the logic. The logic is plain and simple:

The Chinese came to this country where Bahasa Melayu was the lingua franca since before they came. Bahasa Melayu was made the Bahasa Kebangsaan and written into the Constitution upon independence. All citizens must respect that, learn and use the language, which has, since the formation of Malaysia, been known as Bahasa Malaysia

They were not citizens of this country and were stateless all those years, even during the 80 years of British colonial rule. They were given citizenship after Merdeka and were expected to respect and adhere to the constitutional provision on the National Language. There is therefore no excuse for not doing that. There is no such thing as “multi nations withing a nation” nonsense. Plain and simple respect and live by the Constitution, the highest set of laws in the country.

No such thing as “Give me what I want first then I’ll give you what the country wants”. President J.F Kennedy famously said, “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”. It's the basic requirement of a citizen. We are not even talking about nationalism and patriotism here yet.

There has been the expression “My country, right or wrong” prevalent in Europe since medieval times. One may criticize the country for its wrongs but “my country is my country, right or wrong”.

There’s another famous expression, “My kingdom for a horse”, i.e willingness to sell one’s country if one can get what one badly wants. Yet another expression, “When the going gets tough, the “tough” gets going - the ungrateful fellows get going to Australia, NZ, Canada etc.”

Where logic is not adopted, and after all the 54 years but still unable, and worse still, unwilling to accept Article 152 and live by the Constitution, some Malaysians are inclined to quote the last expression above to those who ask to “show me proof”, or “convince me” and what not.

You have earlier accused people of what you called “comprehension problems”. To soften the issue, I put in my earlier comment a pre-emptive paragraph which I’ll repeat

“I hope my comment will not lead to accusations of comprehension problem and counter-accusations of communication capabilities. It’s just seeking clarifications in the interest of meaningful discussions.”

And now let’s engage in meaningful discussions, shall we?

Maju.

KijangMas said...

Adam (Jan.21, 2011 7:01 PM) said:-
"I am a busy young man. Which is why I don't have time to elaborate, or take the effort to find ways to persuade them."

Aisey man, so only you are busy among the people here ah? The others here just goyang kaki watching lalang grow kah?

Do you know the real life vocations of the regulars here?

Try visualising managing five companies in three countries across 16 time zones with three places of residence scattered in those countries, not to mention a sprawling dusun in KB, plus daily rigorous workouts ..... and still have the time to read and reply to incoherent comments by the likes of yourself and HuaYong and the occasional banter of Tommy Yew?

Find time boy!

I once fired a bright young manager who kept on bitchin' that "he got no time" to do this and that. Capable kid but crippled by a toxic attitude.


More Adam:-
"In the Demi Negara community we champion the Malays till no end. But I think we have to realize at times too that we have our faults."

I sense a tinge of the Malay Apologisitiis disease here.

Of course lah we all "have our faults." This shouldn't negate one's pride and the championing of one's heritage. You think the nons don't have their share of "faults"?

Let me see:-

... counterfeiters ... vice rings ... human traffickers ... gambling dens ... extortionists ... street hustlers ... tax evaders .... etc., etc.
for one group of nons

and

... couldn't-hold-their-drink ... petty thugs ... trouble makers ... exaggerators ... chronic litigators ... drama queens ... social instigators ... etc., etc.
for another group of nons.

You think the likes of DAP, MCA, Dong Zong, Suqiu, MIC and Makkal Sakthi ceased championing their respective racial causes on account of the ingrained "faults" of their own groups? Of course not.

--------

Adam (Jan.22, 2011 8:26 PM) said:-
"Why is it that people are rejecting the SSS?"

What "people"?

76% of Malaysian primary school kids attend the SK. It is the residual 24% that is the issue here. The "people" you inferred are these minority. They are not the "people" as in the masses. You should refer to them as "these people" or "some people" Be careful in your choice of words of you'll end up confusing yourself.

KijangMas said...

Adam (Jan.22, 2011 8:26 PM) said:-
"The 'nons' think lowly of us Malays and our culture. Yes I said it. They think we are malas, corrupt and stupid. That's why they don't want to be associated with us or our language."

Duhh .... of course lah Mat Adam. That is fundamental human nature lah. In fact, the sentiment is mutual and applicable in every conceivable permutation of ethno-cultural groups in this world.

What do you think a typical Melayu thinks of a non, be him/her a Chinese or a Tamil or a Punjabi?

Not much.

This "look down" or penghinaan encompasses everything from "ugly-sounding" language to body odour to yucky foods to eating habits to lack of personal hygiene to basic racial prejudices such as penipu, penyogok, pembelit, pencuri, ... ad nauseam.

Racial prejudice and shallow stereotyping, of course, is as old as the human race itself. People, remember this P.Ramlee classic? Do you think the bungling Ah Pek is superior to the cunning Marjina?

And this "look down" has nothing to do with a race's economic advancement or relative level of progress. Economically advanced Japanese and economically advanced Koreans hate each others' guts. Likewise, the "civilised" English and the "civilised" French find so many "defects" in each other's culture and language and lifestyle in an orgy of perpetual prejudice. And these are just the tip of the inter-ethnic iceberg.

A quick sampling: Turks vs. Greeks; Turks vs. Armenians; Germans vs. Poles; Russians vs. Finns; Serbs vs. Albanians; Uighurs vs. Chinese; Tibetans vs. Chinese; Vietnamese vs. Chinese; Thais vs. Khmers; Thais vs. Burmese; Patani Malays vs Thais; Khmers vs. Vietnamese; Sinhalese vs. Tamils; Arabs vs Persians; Arabs vs. Kurds; Kurds vs. Persians; Kurds vs. Turks; Turks vs. Arabs; Azeris vs. Armenians; Shanghainese vs. Hong Kongers; ... and closer to home, Dayaks vs. Madurans; Tausugs vs. Tagalogs; Achinese vs. Javanese; ... and Kelantanese vs. soul-less Melayu sesats like you.

In LA, the Chinese are arguably lower than the Japanese, Korean or even Thai in the Asian American social strata, and probably on par with the Filipinos, Vietnamese and Cambodians. The "Chinese commie producing cheap garbage" stereotype bears the brunt of dumb racist jokes. And on college campuses, the mainland China types stick out like dog's balls with their unkempt hair, subpar hygiene and loud utterings in their Beijing putonghua. Other Asians wouldn't be caught dead with these people.

So don't interpret too much into this "think lowly of our culture" thing as it is reciprocated exponentially by the Malays who think the tongkang mali punya kuli-origin nons are too "malas, corrupt and stupid" to be part of the refined budaya and beradaban Melayu. Of course, a dwindling minority's decision to socially alienate themselves from the fast growing majority and to abhor the language of this majority is pure social fatalism. Isolationism has its social costs; and the nons assume it at their own peril.

Anonymous said...

Msleepyhead,

I shy away from the label intellectual and shudder at the thought of being referred to as a liberal because many of those who claim or fancy themselves being intellectuals or liberals are actually pseudo-intellectuals or pseudo-liberals i.e pretending to be intellectuals or liberals when in fact they are not.

Liberals are inherently broad-minded but people cannot be broad-minded if they do not see the need for leveling the playing field or for the creation of a united and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia, as propounded by KijangMas in this blog.

Outside the Box is not my favourite blog and I have not visited it for a long time, disagreeing with some of the views there and one comment of mine was not published. I have just scrolled over the posting you referred to and hope my impression of what is written is not way out from the truth, intended or implied.

It’s berating the Muslims and glorifying the non-Muslims in Malaysia. I certainly disagree in the overall sense. Maybe the target is PAS but many non-Muslims also make judgments on “the neighbours’ cats” etc! It appears largely as political talk.

What’s going on in Egypt and autocracies elsewhere in the Middle East certainly don’t apply to Malaysia. For goodness sake, Hosni Mubarak became President in General Elections where only he was the candidate, and it was he, as the Presient of his party, who nominated himself, and that has been going on for a long time. Don’t people see that we have 5-yearly free and fair elections in this country? Give or take some irregularities, they were elections where literally a nobody can contest anybody. And a nobody like Sulaiman Palestin contested Tengku A Rahman in UMNO even 40-50 years ago!

The Tunisian overthrowing of the existing regime via mass protests simply cannot be compared to or applicable to this country. The Middle Eastern Kingdoms like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Persian Gulf States are all ruled by Kings, Sheikhs and Emirs, not via constitutional monarchies where the Rulers like in Malaysia have largely only representational capacities, acting on advice of the elected Governments appointed by them after every General Elections.

Maju.

(See Part 2)

KijangMas said...

Adam (Jan.22, 2011 8:26 PM) said:-
"I have a non-bumi friend at university who told me that he thought that Malays, in his words, 'memang macam sapi ... But my perceptions have changed since I met you guys.'"

This is Human Behavior 101 lah.

You project yourself as a soul-less, self-hating Malay Apologist regularly to this non and lo and behold this non will utter "words of comfort" to elevate you above the "other Malays" that you so abhor and condemn in front of him. If this same guy had said "Melayu memang macam sapi" to me, his pimpled face would be kissed by both soles of my Doc Martens in no time, followed by a couple of moves to ensure his enforced celibacy.


Adam again:-
"... say that you're a white man who lives in South Africa. Would you be well versed in "Afrikaan" or would you be more well versed in English? I'd say English."

Apa lu cite ni Adam?

Afrikaans IS the mother tongue of most WHITE South Africans. Afrikaans is 18th century Dutch spoken by the Boers, descendants of Dutch settlers. The old apartheid loving Mat Salleh totok in South Africa speaks Afrikaans (plus English of course). Now, watch this and then read this.

For an opinionated fellow who tries too hard to sound avant-garde, you have much to learn. And I sense acute inferiority complex in your writings, Adam. You don't have to hantam and denigrade your own heritage in order to uplift your sense of worth, even if you originate from some backward proto-Malay tribe from the Titiwangsa foothills.

Anonymous said...

Part 2

Msleepyhead,

However disgruntled citizens of this country may be, no one should speak of, or infer the possibility of “regime change” via unconstitutional means, via other than the normal General Elections.

Even after the 13 May 1969 race riots, Tun A Razak could have continued to rule indefinitely under the National Operations Council assisted by the Military and the Police, but he lifted the suspension of Parliament and went back to Parliamentary democracy only after 1 ½ years of Emergency Rule.

How can any one imply that the conditions in Malaysia, however bad they may be, deserve Tunisia or Egypt-like mass demonstrations, when the opposition can go to the ballot and try to change the Government without any loss of lives like in Egypt?

In fact, suggesting that may be seditious under the Sedition Act, even subversive under the Internal Security Act. Anyone who speaks for a change in the country via unconstitutional means sounds that. It leads to questions of whether such people do not accept the system of constitutional monarchy being practiced under the Constitution all these years.

The position of the YDP Agong and the Malay Rulers, their roles and functions acting under advice of the Government elected by the people, have been spelt out under Article 153. That Article, together with other sensitive provisions of the Constitution, are protected under the Sedition Act. DS Najib has explained at length that they cannot be touched even with 2/3 Parliamentary majority. Talking about that indiscriminately had contributed to the 1969 race riots and we must avoid another May 13.

We will play our part to help achieve 2020. But we need not rush to get there. Let the politicians say what they like about rushing. As has been pointed out before, China was regarded a pariah by the West for hundreds of years until only 1-2 decades ago. We must not cut corners, sacrifice principles, disregard the Constitution just to get to be called “an advanced nation” by 2020.

After all, the definition of “an advanced nation” or “a fully developed nation” status is subject to discussion. Note that the economists are not agreed on so many issues including inflation, recession, depression – even on the cause of the Great World Depression of the 1930s – now some 80 years after the event.

Let’s be maju by all means. But within the confines of decency, of equitable distribution of wealth and educational advancement, of long term harmony and unity, and based entirely and fully upon the Constitution of the country.

Maju.

ikhwan said...

Sorry KM, this might be a little bit off topic...

Maju said:
___________________________________
many of those who claim or fancy themselves being intellectuals or liberals are actually pseudo-intellectuals or pseudo-liberals i.e pretending to be intellectuals or liberals when in fact they are not.
___________________________________

Indeed they are! I couldnt agree more with you on this.

Couples of my opposing comments in that catchy named blog "outside the box" Syed (rather I think he should actually call his blog "inside the box") have been moderated away from seeing the light of the day.

I have even contemplate to start blogging myself solely to counter some of his weird (if not downright ridiculous) view. However due to time constraint I have to hold it off for the moment.

Similar trait and characteristic of this appeared to be intellect or pseudo-intellect individual can be seen running other blog as well such as Malaysia Today.

antusiri said...

wow! some one please get Adam a mirror!

I hope Adam wakes up as a Malay after this!

Don't end up like super apologist BAPAK VERNAKULAR here!

BTW, nice article bro Kenn!

Ride on!!

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead,

thank you for the gesture.

I think it is a good initiative however i really think that any citizen with some level of Malaysian patriotism, at the end of the day would return and contribute to Malaysia without having to be feed with such "sweetener".

As for me, inshaallah within this one or two years I will return for good regardless whether i get the same "prosper" as i get here or not.

now let us get back to the topic;

You said: "And the sole argument being used is that it is what the Constitution says, apart from it being the right thing to do as a rakyat."

Maybe you have overlook your own statement there. Your first sentence contradict your second statement.

And could you elaborate a bit more on your "we seem to ignore the socio-economical-political realities. Or refuses to deal with that directly."

msleepyhead said...

@Maju,

Thanks for the clarification on the middle-east protest crisis. It clearly exemplified the need to listen to all sides of the story to get a truer picture; which is what I have been trying to do all along, play the antagonist.

Personally, I'm not all that for the advanced country status as it is a gimmick I feel, but TunM was right in setting a target, or how else would we know where to go. Take Proton for example, after almost 30 years, it had to resort to a rebadge. Until we, as culture, can be self-sustaining and create our own technology, then would I say we are advanced, even if the technology is primitive compared to others, originality and adaptation is the only way forward. There is a lot of catching up to do because of reasons we already know. If we continue to be technology users only, we would perpetually be relying on others, and this is one opium that will be hard to shake off. It's remote colonization and imperialism all over again.

Thanks again for the clarification, it is much appreciated indeed.

Anonymous said...

KijangMas discusses support for our national football team and feelings of patriotism for the country. I would like to add that with patriotism there must be loyalty and nationalism. In fact, loyalty must precede patriotism and nationalism.

According to the dictionary, loyalty is being “true, faithful, to duty, love or obligation (to); faithful in allegiance to sovereign, government, or mother country”. And “mother country” here definitely refers to Malaysia. Those who think of “mother country” being other than Malaysia are not loyal to this country and do not deserve to be citizens of Malaysia.

That is obvious. But those who keep thinking of migrating or who glamourise other countries to the extent, for example, of naming public facilities in Penang after Sun Yat Sen – are they loyal?

Patriotism is “defending or zealousness for the freedom or rights of one’s country”. In the broad sense, zealousness in supporting our national football team reflects a desire in asserting the right of our country to win and is therefore patriotism.

And nationalism is “patriotic feeling, principles or efforts; policy of national independence”. Individuals can also be nationalistic, not just governments.

I think the rakyat must be loyal first otherwise how can they be patriotic or nationalistic. Lack of patriotism is a reflection of lack of loyalty. And now, still within KijangMas’ topic of feelings for the country or patriotism, hopefully with KM’s permission, let us talk about loyalty. I am throwing in the following additional questions which others might want to answer or give their views on. I have indicated my views by the phrasing of the questions and I’ll give more views later.

Are those who disregard Article 152 of the Constitution on Bahasa Malaysia as the National Language loyal to the country?

Similarly those who do not accept fully the sensitive Clauses of the Constitution, including Article 153 on the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak - are they loyal? If not, please define what loyalty to the country is in relation to the Constitution.

When people ask for the Bumiputera equity target be abolished, is it fair for others to react asking for their citizenship right be also abolished and is loyalty involved in both cases?

What is the measure of loyalty to the country other than respect for and abiding by the Constitution?

Aku

Anonymous said...

Talk about loyalty, patriotism and nationalism, see how this fellow twisted what Tun Dr Mahathir said and, with the connivance of The Star, was published –

When TDM spoke about “introducing themselves by their race”, MCA vice-president Gan Ping Sieu said “If a foreigner asks me …”. See the relevant excerpt of the Star report below:

“On Dr Mahathir’s comment on non-Malays introducing themselves by their race, Gan said that it does not make them less Malaysian.

“If a foreigner asks me whether I am a Chinese, I will say yes, as I am an ethnic Chinese. Just like if a Malay is asked if he is a Javanese or Bugis,” Gan said.”
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/2/5/nation/7975574&sec=nation

Comment:

Gan said it by way of a statement, prepared in good time after the event, not as a spontaneous or immediate response to a reporter’s question. It shows the premeditated attempt at twisting what the old man said. How skewed, warped and twisted Gan’s mind can be. What connivance the Star did in publishing it.

Less Malaysian, did he say? Wd love to hear his definition of a “full Malaysian”. Or of loyalty, patriotism and nationalism.

He spoke about the participation of others at gaining independence. History is not re-written, he said. Hope he does not think the history of this country as beginning from Merdeka. Or from the time they came in big numbers in the 19th Century. Well before that, old boy. And please don’t twist that, too.

Nicky.

KijangMas said...

Adam said:-
"My buddy, the same one that thought most Malays were sapi, said that our Constitution has been amended plenty of times that it has been deemed weakened at this point and time ... he did bring up some other amendments that don't make sense in our Constitution, one amendment was created so that a judge could serve longer than originally allowed?"

Now I know who is the real sapi.

It's your buddy!

No wonder you're confused. This guy is obviously hopelessly corrupted in his socio-political attitude, equating Malays to bovines and feeding your ignorant mind with DAP propaganda fairytales.

What on earth does "Constitution ... amended plenty of times that it has been deemed weakened" mean? What are these amendments? What does "weakened" mean? "Weakened" relative to what? Amendments in 1993 to curb potential royal tyranny had "weakened" the constitution?

BTW, how many times has the U.S. constitution been amended? Is it now "weakened"?

As for the judge service tenure, either you or your sapi friend are talking sh*t. It makes no sense at all.

Looks like either your sapi friend was taking advantage of your debilitating ignorance to talk rubbish about our constitution or you totally misunderstood what he was saying and repeated meaningless anecdotes here.


Adam again:-
"His perception of Malays changed because my friends and myself were very hardworking in university ... He also applauded our ability to mix with mat sallehs, that he was surprised of our good command of English ... I guess he was surprised that Malays could actually 'do things' properly."

What the ...? This sapi chauvinist must be some kind of psychopathic Malay hater totally inundated by slimy DAP propaganda who lived in some Chinese enclave and has never met a living Melayu in his pathetic life .... until he met this Mr. self-praise Mat Adam fellow.

Adam, why are you in need of this sapi's affirmation of your self worth? Who the heck is this sapi anyway? Can't you see this sapi is a woeful social retard with his DAP-poisoned perception of Malays?

I just cannot fathom why you should feel proud that some maladjusted Malay hater commended your ability to "mix with mat sallehs" and speak English and "do things properly" while insinuating that Malays are generally sapis and totally incapable creatures who are beyond redemption?

More Adam:-
"... there are other issues that can be discussed. For instance, pertaining to the bumiputera special rights... where does it end?"

Huh?

You are questioning Article 153 of the federal constitution man.

Haven't you heard of the Sedition Act?

BTW, why then did you grab the free govt. money (in your capacity as a Malay sapi free loader as defined by your DAP buddy) to pursue your studies at Hillibilly State U? Why didn't you walk-the-talk and be the first Melayu to forego this "bumiputera special rights"?

On the same vein, you should also ask when will the nons' right to Malaysian citizenship end?

Yeah, its the same thing.

"Article 153" = "MyCards to nons."

We either keep both or end both.

Geez, before you make a fool of yourself yet again here, go read some darn history man!

msleepyhead said...

KM said "Read history and you'll realise that Malaysia's treatment of her nons is an anomaly, a one-off, a fluke in the global scheme of things. Malaysia stands alone in this world as the softest, weakest and most disoriented nation when it comes to the synthesization of its disparate social milieu"

I tried to find out what the "Thai Ratthaniyom" was all about from the links you provided. Of course, I had already known earlier from your other blog your other interest in the independence of Pattani and how it was unfairly treated by the Thais from then till now, especially on the forced assimilation.

In relation, speaking of dominance (Ikhwan's earlier query), first of all, Thailand was never colonized by a Western power. Throughout history it has had a strong sense of cultural identity and was under the rule of a single monarchy unlike the separate Malay states. Some of these northern states were even paying tributaries (bunga emas) to the Thai King.

In education, here you have sekolah pondok, mostly for religious education, but in Thailand, the King had foresight to establish a Thai public education as early as the 19th century.

As we know it, secular, mass education only started in Malaya with the missionary schools by the British and vernacular schools by the Other Malayans. That was why in the early days, those schools were a good mixing ground because of neutrality.

"Re-imagining language and literature for the 21st century" linked by KM also revealed what we already know that assimilation is the "pathway to greater prestige, status, power and wealth" (p. 160). So there was an economic motivation after all, just like the Indian Muslim community (KM, January 30, 2011 9:02 PM).

Religion plays a big factor as well, the Thais are pork eating Buddhists, and... I don't need to point out the local scenario.

KM wrote.. ive companies in three countries across 16 time zones
So Bosz, how about writing a business article on how you overcame the lack-of-business-knowledge-cultural-background as claimed by Dot? or is it because Kelantanese have always had a keen business sense.

It was already known and now confirmed by a scientific study that the Kelantanese are a distinct group of Malays.

Anonymous said...

Saudara KM,

1) I initially said I was busy, but then I took time to respond to the comments. There's only so many hours in a day, and I have to prioritize. Responding to comments within your blog can be placed on hold for awhile... don't you think? I don't know the point of your story about firing someone, although I am a little curious, was it a good experience?

2) You call me a soulless Melayu, yet you don't know anything about my background except for a few paragraphs that I've written on your blog. Some of the stuff I wrote was merely poking fun too (the Kelantan article). Can't let bygones be bygones?

3) A buddy in my office is from South Africa, he's white. Yes he can speak Afrikaan. I asked him what language is most white South Africans well versed in, and he said that most white South Africans are better versed in English than Afrikaan. My landlord is South African too, do you want me to ask her what she thinks about it too?

4) How am I trying to sound avant-garde? I use normal words and I'm just relating personal stories.

5) I hesitated to tell the story of why my 'sapi' friend thought that Malays were better than he initially thought, of fear of 'masuk bakul angkat diri sendiri'. I am a little embarrassed about that. Apart from that, my stories of the Sapi friend are my personal stories, and I'm just telling you guys how it is.

6) If you amend certain laws like a million times, excuse the hyperbole, of course people would think that those so called laws are ridiculous. It's simple logic.

7) I'm not questioning article 153. I should clarify. I'm questioning (more to want to know) what is the extent of article 153 - like what does it contain and to what limit? Not the time frame of how long the article should exist. Yeah, my words were confusing on that. I'm really bersyukur for the scholarships that I got. I come from a middle income family, my parents got hit hard in the 1997 Asian stock market crisis and they never would've been able to send me to a school with high tuition fees. But yeah the government came in and I was saved.

8) I got much pride for my Alma Mater so hold your horses on that one. That hillbilly state U has produced plenty of Nobel Laureates mind you.

9) I will take your advice on studying history more.

Adam

ikhwan said...

Whoa KM,

I think you have just given ADAM a slap and a backhand slap right at his face there.

By the way, I dont even think this ADAM fellow is a Melayu. He is probably one of the "nons" pretending Malay.

With regard to the special right; where does this end?

Good question....

My personal opinion is that when equality is achieved.....when the playing field has been leveled....this is when it will end! When the 70% bumiputra shared the 70% of the wealth of this nation and when the ~30% nons shared 30% wealth of this nation. This is where it will end!

Adam, so you want to see this "special right" ended?. Then tell your fellow "sapi nons" to help us achieved this.

Now let us discussed a little bit about this ALI-BABA phenomenon.
Some of the ali-baba case is really the fault of the malays trying to find easy profit BUT some are not as it appears to be.....

I have heard a lot of cases where the ALI has literally been forced to be ALI-BABA. How does this happen? You see...the "nons" controlled the supply and supply chain of most of construction element. They will "play" with the element cost or availability of the construction element in a way that if you dont give them the project and become Ali-Baba you will make lost on them.

Let me quote you this true example:

A project of noise barrier installation across highway or rail track within a residential areas would require a special acoustic wall which is mostly supplied by this "nons". Now when you bid for that project you would quote a certain figures based on the cost of the acoustic wall which is off course quoted by this "nons".

Once you got the project, this nons would turn around and asked the Ali to give the whole project to them with some commission given to this Ali. If this Ali refuses; they will increase the cost of the acoustic wall way higher than which you have costed in the original tender such that if you go ahead with it; off course you will make lost or they will play around with the timing by hiding the product (no stock available etc etc) which delay the completion of the project which also will make Ali suffered lost.

So gents,

Whose to blame with this Ali-Baba phenomena?

I frankly think that the crucial key/source of the predicament that we are now facing in Malaysia is due to this "tak tau diuntung specific nons". More of that other "nons" than the other one. I guess everybody here knows who/which I am referring to.

Anonymous said...

Poor Adam seems to have been mixing with the wrong Chinese crowd. He should have also mixed with the Chinese not plugging the DAP line. Or checked with them whether the DAP lines OK or not before putting his comments.

Here are parts of a comment written by "ramanathanm" published in the Star, 6 Feb 2011. Look at the list of Malay characteristics he put out (several omitted by me). Some are good, others are negative, not knowing enough history of the country. But his last paragraph is insulting, provocative and shows bad intentions. Even not respecting the Constitution regarding the position of Islam, the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak. As KijangMas said, this kind should throw away their MyKad.

Imagine this is published by the MCA-owned the Star. Wonder how people making such comments and publishing them are rated regarding loyalty, patriotism and nationalism. Hope some of you can say something about this.

(Continued)

Anonymous said...

(Continuation)

So much can be said about the ignorance and the misconceptions of the writer. And this is not Malaysia Today, Malaysian Insider and such irresponsible and provocative kind of blogs.

Nicky

Reflecting on Mahathir's Tanah Melayu Assertion

Posted by: ramanathanm

Does it matter if, going forward, Malaysia is called Tanah Melayu (Land of the Malays)? When a former Prime Minister who is admired by so many raises a subject and disagrees with the current Prime Minister, we must sit up and take notice. I refer to Tun Mahathir's comments about Malaysia being the land of the Malays, and Najib's silence despite his 1Malaysia program which widely thought of as “Malaysian first, race second.”

In these troubled times of Hindraf, Interlok, Mahathir and Perkasa, I made a list of things I and many others believe about Malays:

1. Malays' early ancestors probably came from China centuries ago to dwell in the coastal regions of Malaya as cultivators, fishermen and traders.

2. Malays fear the jungles; they think it's the domain of the aboriginals, or orang asli. They fear to offend demons and spirits whom they think rule the jungle.

3. Malays were, historically, the conduits between the aboriginal orang asli and foreigners who sought camphor, drugs (plant resins), gold, rattan, shells, etc.

4. Malays were the original collectors of tin deposits – by panning from the rivers and utilizing smelting technology; they also were workers of tin and gold.

5. Malays, even before colonization, had good administrative and maritime skills – they ran ports well, were shipbuilders, were dependable.

6. Malays were savvy traders. During a period when goods entering China had to be “tributes to the emperor,” Malay rulers sent missions and envoys to China.

7. Malays are loyal subjects, careful to avoid derhaka, or 'treason' because they believe rulers have daulat (sakti), a power which strikes down those who rebel.

8. Malays, prior to colonization, were much influenced by Indians. Many Malay words, royal genealogies and practices can be traced to India.

9. Malays, according to UMNO-Mahathir, need crutches, including quotas in public issues of company shares, preferential treatment in the award of contracts, discounts on housing, quotas in education, etc.

10. Malays had lots of children, knowing their education would be free, while other citizens had fewer babies and skimped and saved for their children's education.

11. “Malays” today includes “recent imports” from Indonesia.

12. Malays think holiness is proportional to the number of Arabic words with which someone begins a speech.

13. Malays think Muslims who are not Sunnis, e.g. Ahmadiyyas, Shiites, Sufis, Wahhabis, etc. need to be 'reformed,' because only Sunnis have the truth.

14. Malays think becoming a Muslim is to “masuk Melayu,” i.e. become Malay. They won't even allow Chinese Muslims to build mosques.

15. Malays are “easily confused” by words used by Christians. They are so insecure they even have lists of words which non-Muslims are forbidden from using.

Is Malaysia Tanah Melayu? On what basis? Ancestry? Loyalty to rulers? Dependence upon UMNO crutches? Adherence to Islam? Intolerance? Public service? Does it matter if the dominance of Malays is a result of government policy, not “personal striving?”

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead said:
___________________________________
In relation, speaking of dominance (Ikhwan's earlier query), first of all, Thailand was never colonized by a Western power.
__________________________________

My reply:

First of all I could not recall of me putting on specific example of this "dominance" on the Thai's. So dont know what you are talking about there??? Or maybe you were replying to KM there....

Anyway... let say hypothetically I did talked about the Thai's. Now your premises on saying that it is the "dominance" factor is due to the Thai's not being colonized by the western and being a central monarchy states.

Am I correct?

I could recall reading from Dr Ridhuan Tee blog that they (Thai) would fine a Thais who spoke in foreign language during that revolution period and also there was also this cultural police with "rattan" to beat those who didn't abide to being Thai's culturally (I am not sure the trueness of this) .

If it is so dominant then why would they need to do that???? If the above is not a "forced" dominant approach then I dont know what is???

Now with this not being "colonized by western" premises....
What about country like Indonesia?? Egypt?? China??
Does that impact on their one national language policy???

Your logic simply doesn't add up.

The more you try, the more you exposed your twisted logic, poisoned mind and fantasy etc etc.

I am not sure what others think about you but to me personally I deduce that you know what the truth is but you are simply trying to throw in all this weird premises and excuse in the hope that it would somehow dissipate into those weak Malays minds or Malays apologetics species.

Adam said (in reply to KM):
___________________________________
If you amend certain laws like a million times, excuse the hyperbole, of course people would think that those so called laws are ridiculous. It's simple logic.
___________________________________

What people? what simple logic? I think those people that you were referring are your fellow "sapi nons" and yourself.

Others might have think that a law that have been changes so many times would mean that it is getting better and better due to those changes. Dont you think?

Is not this a simple logic?

And by the way, me personally, I dont really use/like that constitutional argument. regardless of whether is is stated in our Constitution or not, the fact is that; this is Tanah Melayu and the majority is Melayu and therefore the identity of this nation must follow suit in order for the long term stability of this nation not like "the fake" stability that we have now.

The fact that it is also clearly stated in the Constitution is just a bonus!

Naif said...

Nevermind Interlok, "The Myth of the Lazy Native" by S.Hussein Alatas should should be compulsory reading in order to pass SPM.

Seriously everyone, get a copy.

Anonymous said...

If Adam is working abroad in an environment where he has not many Malays or Malaysians to exchange views with, his perception of conditions in Malaysia, his understanding of the Constitution and the problem of unity and patriotism discussed above is perhaps understandable.

I must commend his positive attitude of willingness to know more and wanting to read up the history of our country. 1-2 bits of advice here. One is not to rely on Wikipedia as practically anybody can write there, including those from Chinese schools and DAP adherents who want to re-write or change the history of this country.

Note that even the DAP MP Dr Kua Kia Soong wrote a book giving his and the DAP version of the race riots of 13 May 1969. A lot different from the records of events written in the White Paper produced by the National Operations Council not long after the outbreak of the race riots. How wrong or how "forgetful" can the facts of history as put out in the White Paper be?

That White Paper is available at the National Archives and may be googled any time.

For an understanding of the origins and the history of the Malays, I recommend the book that has been spoken about here and elsewhere. "Tamadun Alam Melayu" written by Mohd Arof Ishak, published by The Historical Society of Malaysia, 2009. It's available at The Historical Society of Malaysia, a 5-storey building opposite the Institute Jantung Negara, Jalan Tun Razak, KL.

The Historical Society of Malaysia is not just an ordinary society but a well respected historical organisation by itself. It was established during the British colonial times, to provide view points of Malaysians, as distinct from those of the British colonialists that appeared in the then only respectable medium - the Journal of the Malayan Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society.

The founding Chairman of the society was a Malay (Dato Mahmud?). Its membership now includes former and current Professors of History and Malay Studies like History Professor Emeritus Tan Sri Khoo Kay Kim and Malay Studies Professor Dato Mohamed Taib Osman.

Laws are amended on the basis of necessity and based on the will of the majority as reflected in Parliament, or whatever the appropriate authority in other countries may be. The effect and sanctity of the laws are not affected by the number of times they are amended.

It has been explained that in Malaysia certain provisions in the Constitution simply cannot be amended even with 2/3 majority in Parliament. The history of independence and the drafting of the Constitution would enable us to get a clear picture of why it is so.

When googling for the full document of the Constitution one would be well advised to go for the official websites. It's not being paranoid but one needs to always remember those fellows who wish to re-write history to their advantage.

Hope I have been constructive there. Cheers.

Maju.

Anonymous said...

Saudara Ikhwan,

I AM a Malay. I married a Malay. My children will be Malay. My command of Malay is better than my English.

Dah lama gak aa aku tak tulis dalam Bahasa Melayu. Tapi dulu, semasa aku kat skolah slamber je aku tulis karangan beribu patah perkataan. Member aku semua kata aku nye BM agak skema. Nak buat cmana. Dah camtu. Kalau kau nak menuduh kata aku bukan Melayu sebab tulisan aku skema, aku takleh cakap ape ah.

Kalau aku bukan Melayu pun, apa yang aku katakan tak betul ke? Semua benda yang aku cakap datang dpd pengalaman kehidupan. Bukannye rekaan aku.

Aku ingat komuniti DM ditubuhkan untuk berdialog antara sesama kita untuk membaikkan apa yang berkurangan dalam negara. Memanglah kalau komen aku yang ntah pape ntah tak usahlah korang layan. Tapi dalam entri ni komen aku semuanya ikhlas, dan datang dpd pengalaman aku yang serba sedikit.

Adam

ikhwan said...

ADAM:
___________________________________
Kalau aku bukan Melayu pun, apa yang aku katakan tak betul ke? Semua benda yang aku cakap datang dpd pengalaman kehidupan. Bukannye rekaan aku.
___________________________________

Jawapan aku:

Kau ingat aku ni rasis ke? Benda yang betul aku akan cakap betul...benda yang tak betul aku akan cakap tak betul. Jadi apa aku peduli kalau kau ni Melayu ke atau bukan!

Yang aku komen tu sudah semestinya sebab apa yang kau cakap tu tak betul!

Dari komen yang kau tulis tu....Aku tak dapat tidak, merasa segan untuk mengaku yang kau ni Melayu. Perumpamaannya samalah seperti "nons" Malaysian yang mengaku Malaysian tu. Aku nak anggap diorang macam saudara seMalaysia pun....segan lah!

Berdasarkan pengalaman kau ni, aku rasa kau hanya bercampur dengan kelompok kelompok kauvinis Cina...betul tak?

Aku tak faham macam mana orang yang dah mendengar hujah hujah dari kedua dua pihak boleh memberikan komen seperti komen kamu. Memandangkan kamu ni orang Melayu, takkanlah tak pernah dengar hujah hujah dari pihak orang melayu? takkanlah tak faham keadaan orang melayu?

Harap maaf jika ada terkasar bahasa.

Anonymous said...

Hi all. Let's have a break. I would like to share this with the DN community. Smile everyone.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/arab-awakening-or-dawn-of-dark-age/story-e6frg6zo-1225998985002

Inspite of the bad rhetorics by the Oppositions (who know only how to oppose), Malaysia is not a hell hole like what is being painted by them (the Oppo).

- Mira-Luna Kesuma Putri

kuman said...

Adam, susah nak percayalah kalau dah mengaku mengaji kat tempat yang banyak Nobel Leaureates mengaji dan banyak pula bergaul dengan warga asing, tapi bila kena sikit dakyah palsu putar belit totok DAP sudah goyah jati diri.

Aku fikir patutnya kalau dah banyak berkelana dan banyak berkawan, maka lagi kuatlah pegangan, fahaman, dan bangganya aku pada warisan bangsa aku sendiri.

Needing reassurances of self-worth from anti-Malay totok tegar; if that ain't pathetic I don't know what it is. You should read and re-read the book which Naif mentioned - The Myth of the Lazy Native. It should kick the inferiority complex out of your inferior butt.

Anonymous said...

ramanathanm is an example of the many Malaysians who have inadequate knowledge of the history of this country. Kudos to TS Muhyiddin for making History compulsory subject in schools beginning 2013.

But the older generations need be corrected their way-out views about Malays and the Tanah Melayu Tun Dr Mahathir spoke about, especially when they voice out such views.

These certainly have to do with loyalty, patriotism and nationalism. Because you can't be loyal to the country when you even dispute the origins of this country. True, without loyalty there can be no patriotism or nationalism.

And don't blame the Armed Forces for not taking in those with questionable loyalty because no soldier would want to be beside, especially behind, "unloyal" fellows at the battle front. (Not just behind Anwar but also behind these fellows, haha).

ramanathanm is not correct saying "Malays' early ancestors probably came from China". I have read the book recommended in one comment above - "Tamadun Alam Melayu" published by the Historical Society of Malaysia. The "theory" that the Malays came from Yunan and the one that they originated in Taiwan have been debunked.

There have been scores of scientifically done research, archeological excavations, academic studies and findings by experts in lingustics, anthropology, archeology etc since the mid 19th Century. The consensus now is that they originate from the islands of the Malay Achipelago, between Sulu and Celebes some 5,000 years ago.

And the Malays have been in and out of this "Gugusan Pulau Pulau Melayu" since time immemorial. With their shipbuilding (beginning with boats fitted with outriggers) and navigational skills, they reached (distinguishable Malay groups still exist in) Madagascar, South Africa, Australia, NZ, Indo-China, Taiwan and the Pacific Islands up to Hawaii.

Perhaps Malaysia can claim Hawaii from the US some day, haha.

Whatever it is, we have to galvanise ourselves into a united and cohesive Malaysian society, be loyal, patriotic and nationalistic Malaysian citizens so that we won't repeat losing Singapore, Batu Putih and any of our rights in Limbang, Brunei.

Will continue writing when possible.

Nicky

msleepyhead said...

@ikhwan,

You said..First of all I could not recall of me putting on specific example of this "dominance" on the Thai's. So dont know what you are talking about there???

Your earlier comment (February 1, 2011 6:54 AM) was about dominance, rebutting my earlier post, so I was giving the Thai example of dominance and forced assimilation since KM brought it up.

IMHO, there are various factors why the Malays did not impose forced assimilation at that time (immediately after Merdeka) apart from the generosity or kindness of the Malays - communist threat, population (M, ~55%; C, 35%), economic, and also in the negotiations for Merdeka it was touted to be a multiracial affair (go read up on the Alliance, UMNO-MCA relationship, first general election).

Just a note, it would be great if you could spare us the conspiracy theory that those of us with different views here are colluding to brainwash the 'weak minds', as you put it, how about some faith in people. Or do you subscribe to the TunM school of thought that Malays could not compete with the Others because of their genetics (The Malay Dilemma).

Don't you think everyone should read what they want and decide for themselves, who are you to decide for us?

ikhwan said "I could recall reading from Dr Ridhuan Tee blog that they (Thai) would fine a Thais who spoke in foreign language during that revolution period and also there was also this cultural police with "rattan" to beat those who didn't abide to being Thai's culturally (I am not sure the trueness of this)"

Don't you know about KM's other blog (http://patanibook.blogspot.com/).
It's all there.

like adam said, we are here for a dialog, if the comments/arguments put forth are lies, feel free to tear it apart but please come up with factual counter arguments and links to any further readings you have researched.

HuaYong said...

Dot, thanks for the good write up, I don’t fully agree with some points you raise.

1) By using the contention of vote-catching, and made our politician stance and pronouncement including one that representing the government void, would this not make our debate meaningless? Can I just reply LKS and KS are with similar intention?

2) There are many countries that are with multilingual, for instance, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, USA, India, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, and both Switzerland and HK are with multi-streams school. When I claim I don’t know if diversity work, I shall specifically mention that I am not sure if diversity work, or not work in Malaysia.

3) No one dispute that BM is our national language, problem is not many from the government and opposition make a stance that VS is not part of national school. Even Razak Report allows the retention of other language medium schools at primary level. So what is your justification to tell we don’t adhere to our constitution?

4) Before we talk more about assimilation, i hope you could enlighten me your position whether you ‘fully’ agree with both Merkel and Cameron on “multiculturalism had failed”, specifically refer to Muslim. I disagree with them but your stance will make our debate more meaningful pertaining to this subject.

Hope to hear from you soon.


KM,

I already make my stance long long time ago that there are two mainstream. Hope you catch up fast, otherwise memang susah la.


Ikhwan,

Analogy is notorious trap for the unwary. So like Aku and Dot always said, don’t put words into my mouth. I am asking you to think deep but instead you reply is ridiculously off the mark. Sorry I can’t help you.

Oh btw, like what I had replied to KM, I already far ahead and I didn’t know you are that slow. I sudah sampai Slim River menuju Bidor while you masih mimpi kat Tanjong Malim, mana bolih, kalu Saga tak perform, guna la Myvi, Nasional car juga. Ada paham?


Maju,

You argue well. I first thought you are another one from the same group that keeps on posting insane question like if I am Malaysian or if Adam is Malay. My bad and I apologies, I will reply you later.

ikhwan said...

Another one of the polluted minded msleepyhead idea:
___________________________________
IMHO, there are various factors why the Malays did not impose forced assimilation at that time (immediately after Merdeka......(generosity, population, economic alliance for merdeka etc etc)
___________________________________

I cant understand what has all the above got to do with forced approach?

Maybe I am too slow to "understand" because of my genetic make up as a Malay as you TDM put it or masih pakai proton saga tak macam HuaYong yang pakai Myvi.


What has this all got to do after Merdeka and forced approach??? All those is to get Merdeka from British. Once British gone...The army is more than 80% Malay, the police is more 80% Malay...The ruler is Malay...So what is stopping us from forcing you "sapi nons" to "forced" assimilation???

My own opinion;

If not of because of the Melayu is Muslim. I think right after Merdeka all you "sapi nons" would have immediately been whacked and wiped off this Tanah Melayu. (regardless of all those other factors that you have given beside of that generosity bit). Those forced approach would have been inevitable!


And more of Mslepyhead:
_________________________________
Don't you think everyone should read what they want and decide for themselves, who are you to decide for us?
__________________________________

What the heck? Kalau dah "sapi" tu otak pun memang macam sapi jugak lah! (Shaking my head)

When did I make decision for you or your sapi nons???

Yes I agree with you on "everybody can read what they want and decide for themselves"

So why do you have problem with my "conspiracy theory that those of us with different views here are colluding to brainwash the 'weak minds'"

As you, yourself put it "everybody can read what they want and decide for themselves"

Again People can read and people can decide!

So let them read my thought and decide for themselves.

And I can also write what I want just as much as you can criticize me and vice versa.

In order to exposed your twisted logic Mr/Mrs msleepyhead there is no need for any further reference/link. Let the reader decide!

Arent we having a dialog now albeit a bit harsher one.

And thank you for the link. Haven't read that one.

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:
___________________________________
I am asking you to think deep but instead you reply is ridiculously off the mark
___________________________________

Then tell us what your "mark" really was by "What make you think the white scum have the rights to complain? Where the hell this scum came from?".

Why dont you be franked? Just tell it plain and clear!

See folks how this one of the "sapi nons" species HuaYong mind work. they will throw in a vague line and then twist and turn to "cucuk jarum halus" to get his twisted nationalistic and ideology into other people mind. (Note: msleepyhead you dont have to read this yet again another one of my conspiracy theory if you dont like)

Then this people like HuaYong and msleepyhead will go on whining telling others that we have put our words in their mouth!

Why would I do this? As a matter of fact I rather shoves my shoes down their polluted throat!

ikhwan said...

Guys

Here is another twisted statement/ideology/perception from one of the "sapi nons" species with his superior and superfast myvi car (perhaps a modified one with turbo and supercharge capability):

HuaYong said:
_________________________________
I already make my stance long long time ago that there are two mainstream....
_________________________________

Aiseh man!

Come again?....TWO MAINSTREAM in Malaysia???

This is the first time I hear this....

Presumably one of this mainstream is the one that KM been preaching about now what about this other mainstream???

Could you characterized a bit more details on this other mainstream before aku memandai guessing and then you would claim... I put "words in your mouth" (although I actually rather put my shoes down there since all that have came out from your mouth seems to smell like sh*t)

Thank you

HuaYong said...

Maju,

I often perceive question raised is sign of disagreement rather than seeking for clarification, hence my reply is as you said, off tangent, my mistake.

I notice your locus is fairly similar with most that comments here, and I believe some of my reply to Dot and KM will help to make clear where I come from. First of all, I am not utterly reject SSS and the contention on how BM could create a unify nation, my reserved is on choices and paths to make it achievable, and to explore the possibility of diversity / multiculturalism base on current worldview and political reality.

Msleepyhead had outlined reasons of no assimilation base on actual condition (immediately after Merdeka), and I also give mine base on general notion of the basic prerequisite to make assimilation work. The insinuation that I agree to force assimilation by some here have some truth and I even tell it was the accepted trend at certain point of time but I doubt it would easily be enforced today, hence I suggest a ‘softer’ approach which I perceive most of you disagree, for instance, KM said he is not ‘selling’, if that is the case, I am not ‘buying’ as there is no offer so both side can debate for another decade or two with the same attitude.

I don’t see any comprehensive plan and idea yet (I have no time to search and re-read all post by KM, perhaps you shall provide me the relevant link) apart from insistent to adhere ‘fully’ to constitution which interpretation is still debatable. I personally find it is unconvincing to tell our policy and actual condition is contradicted with our constitution for the past 50 years. Besides, like you have elucidated clearly in your reply to msleepyhead, Malaysia uphold democracy and I presume you shall know how democratic work as compare to an authoritarian state, until and unless we are ready to give up democracy, or we really garner the support of ‘mainstream’, then perhaps you could comfortably insist that you have nothing to sell, and ultimately your ‘logic’ might work.

I categorize Chinese (Malaysian) into four groups with regards to education preference. (1) Fully support SSS (2) Quality, household income and demographic, ease of travel (3) Know a little bit of Chinese will do and (4) Hardcore. I think most of us know the resolution for 1 to 3 and this group is at least 90% of Chinese population by looking at the statistic on those that enroll Chinese Independent School (60 of them) during secondary level. I did explain succinctly that we were almost there in the seventies but a change of language policy plus the open up of China (Mandarin) and some other factor slow down the process. The predicament of the Chinese Educationist is no student in seventies and eighties era while their complaint today is not enough school and classroom. However, I personally think VS system has many setbacks and not inclusive enough to face the challenging environment that we are in now and need a better education system, but this is a chicken egg dilemma due to politicking.

So Maju, let me know your view first on my stance and we delve deeper into more specific topic, honestly sometimes I am not too sure what is the core subject under discussion, the scope were widen into race, religion, politics, education, US/Europe, Middle East. I admit I lack the capacity to deal with all this at one stroke and due to time constrain, my reply is pretty brief and simple.

I will try to answer the question you raise in my next post. Before I end, I wish to know do you truly believe the ‘hero’ style of writing could enhance understanding from those that have an opposed view? I think not unless your readers in mind are not those that hold dissent view, I doubt LKS writing and rhetoric could achieve the objective stated by you. But of course, my hope that some ideal could reach a wider audience is my own fancy opinion.

ikhwan said...

Nicky,

Thanks for sharing.

Aiseh panjang sangat lah list si ramanathanm tu....

but some in the list is quite correct and reasonable though.

Some are actually quite "funny". It is so funny such that if this "sapi rama" is in front of me I would ensure this (quote from my favorite KM punch line) "his pimpled face would be kissed by both soles of my Doc Martens in no time, followed by a couple of moves to ensure his enforced celibacy"

Those "malay takut masuk hutan" and "malay is easily confused" perhaps more reflecting his own species characteristics with all those ridiculous Hinduism believe and talked about "easily confused".....

Yeah you can see the biggest confused here in the history where this species has confused of being in Tanah Melayu to being in China and India.

With this "Malays' early ancestors probably came from China centuries ago to dwell in the coastal regions of Malaya as cultivators, fishermen and traders."

I find this blog to be a very good source in refuting those idea "http://riwayatmelayu.blogspot.com"

Even if it is true that "Malay ancestors come from China"???

So what??!!! Does this negate the premises that this is Tanah Melayu? Does this mean that the Chinese/Indian is not pendatang anymore? Does this means that the identity of this tanah air cannot be Melayu anymore when in fact "those Malay ancestors" came here with Bahasa Melayu and Berbudaya Melayu???


Those chinese ancestors most probably come from some African tribe or the Monggolians tribe. Does this means that now the african/monggolian can claim that china is their country and they should enforced their language over the mandarin???

There is this other source which hypothesized that the English came from some German tribe. So now, does this mean that the German can claim citizen of england??? And they should have speak germany???

Where is the logic???

HuaYong said...

Ikhwan

Generally, mainstream is the common thought of the majority, therefore my thesis of two mainstreams doesn’t sound logical, however I never agree that thought postulated here in DN as mainstream, to the contrary, I believe to uphold diversity is actually the mainstream base on current development. I do understand that we would never agree to each other view, the stance of two mainstream is therefore a concession.

“Then tell us what your "mark" really was”

This is a fair question. If you do read history of Australia and their commitment to multiculturalism, and know the difference between Caucasian races that reside in Europe to those that reside in America and Oceania, and truly uphold the concept of indigenous and their rights, then perhaps you would get my ‘mark’. I am sorry I didn’t make myself clear because it never cross my mind to dispute fact that Malay being the indigenous, I equal that Aussie with some Chinese here and those from the red dot, and I don’t know how you could come up with the idea that I am implying something else. I think we both should stop our discussion as we become extremely sensitive to each other remarks.

Lastly, I find your statement pertaining to argument not base on constitution sounds interesting. Seem like you are the only one here that have such contemplation, pretty amazing.

KijangMas said...

HuaYong (Jan.25, 2011 6:44 PM) said:-
"... my opinion is that we can’t expect melting pot like what happen in America unless we are prepare to grant more freedom / liberty in term of religion and race ..."

What more freedom and liberty do you people want? You are allowed to speak foreign languages and live in your own little ethno-cultural bubbles from cradle to grave. Tak cukup ka?

And too many of you people cannot even string a coherent sentence in the national language with no punitive cost to your well-being and quest for wealth here. Tak cukup ka?

And we allow you to designate numerous trees, boulders, caves, geological formations, sidewalks, kerbs, monsoon drains, almost whatever inanimate object you fancy as the home, lair and headquarters of your innumerable deities, saints, goblins and even devils ... plus allow you to build, carve and cast whatever graven image of dewas and latoks and supernatural beings of your choice in every conceivable nook and cranny in this land ..... and you still demand that we "grant more freedom / liberty in term of religion and race" to you people? Masih tak cukup kebebasan ka?

What kind of greedy species is this? You remind me of the "invasive species" that obliterate native ecosystems, such as the Asian carp and tilapia in Florida and African killer bees in Latin America ... semua kasi sapu licin!

Anyway, the extreme freedom and liberty you enjoy here -- speaking foreign languages with impunity from cradle to grave; non-conversant in the national language; freedom to roam around and pick and choose religious sites in the most unlikely of places; and unwillingness to integrate with the MAINSTREAM -- do not exist in America or for that matter Australia, Britain, New Zealand, Japan, Korea or anywhere else, even Communist China itself!

More HuaYong:-
"I meet some expatriate that work in Asia ... who can speak/understand decent native language ... or else they can’t even get to order meal in a restaurant. Are we in the same condition? Are we doing enough to make BM a lingua franca? I doubt this very much."

Yeah HuaYong, we have not done enough.

You know why?

Because whenever the govt. tries to enforce Article 152 of the federal constitution or the
National Language Acts 1963/67, chauvinist segregationists led by your DAP party would howl and bark and protest as if they are being subjected to the worst kind of torture known to man.

The Loh Kai Teresa Kock even had the audacity to complain about the Jawi script on roadsigns in blatant contempt of Clause 9 of the National Language Act, which stated that:-
"The script of the national language shall be the Rumi script provided that this shall not prohibit the use of the Malay script, more commonly known as the Jawi script, of the national language."

This old cow and her mah chais should have been instantly locked-up for sedition.

The main culprit is still the government itself, more so the Najib administration. Its quest to regard variety and diversity as a virtue has become serious impediments to the formation of a cohesive Bangsa Malaysia competently speaking in one language and fully and confidently aware of their shared identity and self-image.

KijangMas said...

HuaYong again:-
"... the more relevant comparison to us is Thailand and Philippines. I don’t think “Chinese” from these two neighbors, on historical angle, constitute much difference with “Chinese” over here in Malaysia, but how come end result is immensely dissimilar?"

Yeah, you know why HuaYong?

Because, in this land where the Melayus are up to their foreheads in budi bahasa, tata tertib, sopan santun and lemah lembut, we did not and still do not (yet) whack our resident aliens with bamboo sticks like the Thais did in the era of Field Marshal Phibun Songkhram, 1938-45 and successive military strongmen every time these people speak Chinese; or write/display Chinese hieroglyphics; or eat with chopsticks; or assume three syllable names; or wear AhPek pajamas and AhMoi cheongsams; or mention ancestral ties to China.

My Thai business acquaintance up in the Chiengmai-Lamphun area is of Han Chinese-Yunnan tribal ancestry, but this beauty knows not a word of any Chinese dialect and refuses to elaborate about her Chinese ancestral roots. She said it was just never discussed by her parents or grandparents and she instead takes great pride in her impeccable Thai linguistic skills and cultural awareness.

Numerically, the largest ethnic-Chinese population in SEA actually is in Thailand, not Malaysia. One in five Thais have Chinese blood, with this figure jumping to 35% in Bangkok. BUT these ethnic-Chinese Thais have long lost their Chinese language skills. Today, they are patriotic and loyal exclusively Thai-speaking citizens with great reverence for the King and country.

People, the China-worshipping HuaYong types couldn't exist in Thailand. His parents would have been born 100% "Thai" with strictly regulated Thai names and HuaYong would probably be named Somchai Suramongkol (or something to that effect). The Chinese or China would have been alien beings and concepts in his psyche.

As for the Philippines, no need government intervention. The tough social order devours the Chinese like soft dessert through killings, extortion and kidnappings. Most Chinese Filipinos have long since fled the country with the residual melding quietly into Filipino society.

BTW, former Pres. Cory Cojuangco Aquino's great grandfather was a Chinese immigrant named Co Yu Hwan (Koh Yew Wan) who landed in the Philippines in 1861. Prompted by waves of anti-Chinese violence, he converted to Catholicism, morphed as Jose Cojuangco, seamlessly assimilated into Filipino society, and founded a prominent business empire. The rest is history.

KijangMas said...

Ridzzy said:-
"I still cannot comprehend why our efforts to unite our children in their most formative years is deemed as racist by certain quarters? Explain this to me because I am still perplexed on this notion. Why are we even debating this? Efforts to unite our children to a common aspiration is racist, but insisting on segregation is not?"

Ridzzy, welcome back after a long hiatus.

Your one paragraph above encapsulates the fundamental issue affecting our society. Yes, why efforts to unite our children are deemed racist while insistence on segregation is not racist and in fact cunningly embellished as a human rights and freedom issue?

In large part, this is due to the govt.'s lack of will and sheer incompetency in pushing through a decisive unified national school policy. The stubbornness of the segregationists are understandable. These are the same people who, if not for continuing punitive govt. actions, think nothing of hawking on busy roads, throwing trash and toxic waste with impunity, smuggle endangered animals, clear-cutting our pristine forests, not to mention the social vices mentioned here and elsewhere.

The authorities steadfastly enforce the law in those matters BUT are wimps when it comes to the biggest illegal and unconstitutional act of all, vernacular schools. I think its a crime against humanity for the govt. to sweep this SJKC/SJKT problem under the tikar as our nation are burdened by an endless stream of maladjusted outcasts produced by these joints.

Ridzzy added:-
"1Malaysia should be Malaysians going to 1School, or else we can drop the rhetorics and sloganeering."

Agree.

Ridzzy:-
"I work for a British MNC and my boss who is British is absolutely baffled about this unique (flawed?) system that we have here. Better education in vernacular schools?My wife who is teaching tertiary level in a private university can vouch for the horrendous level of English this jenis kebangsaan types inherit into tertiary education."

Yup, not only horrendous English, but disastrous BM as well. Many teachers/lecturers have given the same feedback here in the past, i.e., clusters of alien nons keeping to themselves and communicating exclusively in Mandarin among themselves (even note-taking) to the detriment of class cohesion. I recall a teacher wrote that her SJKC products rudely fight back when asked to go easy on the Mandarin in class. Can this happen in an American, Thai or British classroom ...?

The same phenomenon afflicts the work scene. Many times, my American or European partners were surprised when told that the cliquish Mandarin-speaking staffers of my subcontractors are actually Malaysians and not imported China expats they had assumed all these while. On many occasions, even simple govt. approval and job spec letters had to be translated at significant expense into Mandarin (even English of no use here) for these "Malaysian" workers to understand, to the amazement of the foreign partners.

Anonymous said...

HuaYong 3.45 PM,

I don’t understand your point 1. You may want to explain it, perhaps in simpler language.

Point 2 – your claim of “multi-lingual countries Argentina, Brazil, Canada, USA, India, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, and both Switzerland and HK are with multi-streams school”, I’ll have to check on the actual situation in those countries. USA, for example, is not multi-lingual in the sense of allowing more than one stream of education. I think KijangMas has written about this and may want to comment again in due course – he certainly is very fimilar with the actual situation in USA, Canada etc.

Point 3 – “problem is not many from the government and opposition make a stance that VS is not part of national school”. Do you need anybody to make a stand? Why? I think some of them have made a stand, including DS Najib. Note that he has never said VS will be forever. In fact, he said “single stream schooling will be implemented when the rakyat wants it.“

So many have talked about three systems of education and DS Najib himself has responded to the Kempen SSS by saying in Parliament and in his 1Malaysia websiteand I repeat what he said - “Single-stream schooling will be implemented when the rakyat wants it”. Although he has not said the method or how to determine whether the rakyat wants it now or not. Single-stream schooling DS Najib referred to certainly is Sekolah Kebangsaan and the Kempen SSS has proposed referendum as the best and safest method for him to use.

That the Razak Report allows the retention of other language medium schools at primary level and that VS have existed for over 50 years do not mean it is right. My justification in saying that we are not adhering to our constitution is simply that the Constitution says the National Language of the country is Bahasa Malaysia, Mandarin and Tamil can be studied in national schools as elective subjects, VS have existed until now merely as political expediency and political expediencies cannot go on forever, especially when they are at the expense of long-term harmony and national unity. Do read KijangMas’ post on Racial Polarisation and the need for a strong and cohesive Bangsa Malaysia and anther one entitled “At Last Some One With Testicular Fortitude” to understand fully that need. Just google his Archives here.

Point 4 - I fully agree with both Merkel and Cameron “multiculturalism had failed”. I don’t think they refer specifically to Muslims because the Cameron Government has been cracking down on those over-staying in Britain on student or tourist visit passes. The last I read was arrests on illegal workers and overstaying visitors in Chinese restaurants. It is common knowledge that Chinese restaurants in the Chinatowns of all the cities and major towns in Britain and Europe harbor not only illegal immigrants but also secret societies, thugs and gangsters – those having a culture of their own. They are as much as the Muslim terrorist potentials that Cameron and Merkel no longer want when declaring that “multi-culturalism is dead”.

Dot.

PS:

Reference your subsequent comment, I need to point out that I did not say “don’t put words into (your) mouth.” I might have begun my sentence with “I hope I’m not putting words in your mouth by saying ...”. I hope you appreciate that there’s a huge difference there.

msleepyhead said...

Salam,

My comment at SSS's latest posting.

Admin SSS,

Saya amat bersetuju dengan artikel-artikel ini dan juga yang sebelumnya.

Pada pendapat saya, kalau ingin mengharamkan sekolah2 vernakular kita harus bermula dengan pendokong2 sekolah2 ini seperti MIC, MCA dan juga UMNO.

Apabila parti2 politik berpuak kaum ini sudah dimansuhkan dan diharamkan bolehlah kita seterusnya menukarkan sekolah2 vernakular menjadi sekolah kebangsaan.

Seperti yang diketahui umum parti2 ini bukan sahaja memberi pelindungan sebagai janji2 pilihanraya, malah memberikan duit yang datangnya daripada pembayar cukai dan juga hasil sumber negara yang seharusnya dinikmati semua apabila parti2 kaum ini membentuk kerajaan. Selagi politik berpaksikan kaum diteruskan selagi itulah sekolah2 vernakular terus menikmati perlindungan daripada pemerintah/kerajaan dan terus menerima sokongan wang ringgit.

Marilah kita mulakan tindakan perundangan, kalau diharapkan kerajaan hari ini dan ahli2 politik, rasanya mereka akan terus menjaga kepentingan sendiri dan bukannya kepentingan bangsa dan tanahair.


On another matter.

If I may humbly request, Tuan KM, how about writing how you envision the local assimilation to take place, either enforced or through other methods? As we are aware, through your Patani Blog, such matters are close to your heart and through your extensive research on Thai assimilation (Thai Ratthaniyom) that was quite successful, you must by now be well-versed on the matter. Then perhaps we can chip in and argue how to make it a reality.

Anonymous said...

"kalau ingin mengharamkan sekolah2 vernakular kita harus bermula dengan pendokong2 sekolah2 ini seperti MIC, MCA dan juga UMNO." -

Perlu saya nyatakan bahawa Kempen SSS tidak mengsyorkan sekolah vernakular "diharamkan". Yang perlu berlaku ia-lah sekolah vernakular "diserapkan" kedalam sistem Sekolah Kebangsaan. Caranya ialah dengan menggunakan Bahasa Malaysia sebagai bahasa pengantar, bahasa Mandarin dan Tamil diajar sebagai mata pelajaran pilihan, dan menggunakan sukatan pelajaran atau silabus yang sama dengan Sekolah Kebangsaan sepenuhnya.

Dengan cara itu, tidak ada so'al kerugian harta bangunan sekolah, harta tanah, makmal makmal, alat alat dan sebagainya. Perkara wang yang telah dikeluarkan bagi tanah, bangunan dan kemudahan itu mungkin boleh dirunding dengan Kerajaan.

Guru guru dan kakitangan pun tidak perlu khuatir kehilangan kerja. Guru guru boleh diberi latihan bagi menyesuaikan mengajar didalam Bahasa Kebangsaan. Sedikit rombakan dilakukan ditempoh penyesuaian atau "adjustment period".

Yang pentingnya ialah suatu kajian mendalam dan menyeluruh (in-depth and comprehensive study) dijalankan keatas ketiga tiga sistem pelajaran yang ada sekarang. Dilakukan oleh mereka yang berkelayakan, berpenglaman dan bebas - tidak ahli parti politik, tidak berpendirian politik yang mungkin menjejas integriti kajian tersebut. Perlu termasuk 1-2 dari luar negeri untuk menguatkan kebebasan pasukan pengkaji.

Kajian itu perlu mengkaji kelemahan dan kekuatan ketiga tiga sistem yang ada itu dan mengesyorkan mana yang perlu dibaikki, dan tindakan tindakan baru bagi menghasilkan Bangsa Malaysia yang kukuh dan bersepadu.

Kesalahan British membenarkan parti parti politik berdasarkan kaum telah ditiru pemerintah Malaya Merdeka dan sistem itu sudah lebih 50 tahun umurnya. Mengharamkannya menjadi so'al besar, hampir tidak mungkin. Melainkan ada keadaan selapas 13 Mei 1969 dimana negara diperintah dibawah undang undang dharurat (Emergency laws) dibantu oleh tentera, atau keadaan seperti diFiji dimana tidak lama dahulu tentera gulingkan Kerajaan demokratik dan perintah negara berdasarkan arahan atau "decrees".

Tetapi penyerapan sekolah vernakular boleh dan perlu dilakukan. Dato Seri Najib telah berkata sekolah satu aliran akan dilaksanakan bila rakyat mahukannya. Maka perlu dia diperingatkan tanggung jawabnya terhadap Perkara 152 Perlembagaan. Dan bahawa mereka yang mahukan SSS berupa "the silent majoriti" dan mempunyai demikian banyak undi.

Ahli ahli UMNO mungkin percaya kapada Najib akan kelemahannya akibat perpecahan kaum Melayu. Tetapi dipercayai bahawa bila kekuatan timbul, langkah positif akan dilakukan berkenaan SSS dan kajian mendalam dan menyeluruh itu. Jika tidak ahli ahli UMNO perlu menggantikannya dengan pemimpin lain.

Tindakan perundangan berupa konfrontasi atau "confrontational". Saya fikir didalam keadaan sekarang masih boleh lagi terus dengan melaungkan perlunya SSS dan kajian tersebut dilakukan. Sekurang kurangnya sehingga PRU13. Dalam pada itu kita juga boleh membuat apa lain, termasuk berdo'a supaya kekuatan timbul dari PRU13. Jika tidak, mungkin tindakan undang undang boleh dilakukan dimasa itu.

Sekian pendapat saya.

sepadu.

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead:
___________________________________
Pada pendapat saya, kalau ingin mengharamkan sekolah2 vernakular kita harus bermula dengan pendokong2 sekolah2 ini seperti MIC, MCA dan juga UMNO.
___________________________________

Secara umumnya saya setuju tetapi yang peliknya kenapa berhenti setakat MIC, MCA dan UMNO??? Saya kira eloklah kita panjangkan senarai tersebut kepada DAP, PAS dan PKR juga.

Kita tahu secara umumnya pendirian Parti MCA, MIC dan UMNO berkenaan sekolah vernakular dengan sokongan BAPA VERNAKULAR; NAJIB tetapi adakah sesiapa disini pernah mendengar pendirian parti DAP, PAS dan PKR behubung dengan sekolah vernakular?

Kalau ada sesiapa disini tahu, harap boleh dikongsikan bersama.

Terima kasih

Anonymous said...

A side story:

I met a buddy during dinner last night. After a few meals and light chatter, we eventually ended up talking about ASB. I told him,"dude, of course you can play stocks or invest in low-yield bonds, but if I were you, I'd just place all of my money into ASB. I told my mat salleh friends that ASB has a return rate of around 10% and all of them went nuts hearing about it. So I'd advice you to invest/simpan some of your cash there."

My buddy is somewhat religious, so he tells me this,"Adam, kau tak tau ke yang ASB amalkan riba gak? Diorang invest 33% dekat Maybank yang clearly amalkan riba. Dalam ceramah hari tu, ustaz tu cakap even the Security Commissions kata yang ASB or Maybank tak Syariah compliant"

I told him not to be stupid. That Malays are already poor to begin with. We should use all of the means in this world to gather wealth. And I told him if he had a guilty conscience, takleh tidur memalam dengan tenang, that he should just donate 33% of his profit from ASB.

Amacam? What do you guys think?

Adam

ikhwan said...

Adam,

pendapat aku:

kalau ada yang halal tu, masuk yang halal lebih baik contoh Amanah Hartanah Bumiputra (AHB) dan lain lain. Sekarang ni kan ada banyak pilihan bukan macam dahulu.

Kalau ragu ragu (tak tahu samaada halal atau haram atau bercampur) lebih baik jauhkan sahaja.

Kat Dunia ni memang untung tapi diakhirat...wallahua'lam.

I would advise your buddy to take the capital out, donate the profit and then invest them back to those "sure" Sharia compliant fund.

Regards

msleepyhead said...

Terima kasih sepadu dan ikhwan.

Saya mungkin telah terikut-ikut dengan tulisan satD* yang mengambil pegangan yang lebih 'keras' berkenaan sekolah vernakular ini. Tambahan blog SSS juga kerap memaparkan tulisannya di situ.

*Apologies in advance to satD for dragging his name in here.

ikhwan, saya turut bersetuju semua parti2 dan persatuan yang menyokong/melindungi sekolah vernakular samada dari segi wang ringgit atau dasar pemerintahan harus ditentang. Tetapi harus kita akui yang sudah menjadi kerajaan selama ini ialah parti perikatan, kemudiannya BN.

Nampaknya dalam pergerakan SSS ini juga mempunyai cara pendekatan yang berbeda - secara konfrontasi (seperti satD) atau secara halus (seperti sepadu).

Buat masa ini saya berharap pihak DBP dan majlis perbandaran setempat boleh bermula dengan pentafsiran undang2 dan enakmen mengenai penggunaan Bahasa Melayu dan bahasa lain di tempat awam.

satD said...

chill out msleepyhead

takkan benda haram nak di halalkan atas nama politik?

Tepuk dada tanya selera.

Kalau sudah dibawah pemerintahan tentera dizaman MAGERAN pun tak boleh nak implement, nak harap cara lembut sekarang?

What did we get instead...a 42 word rukun negara??

National Cultural policy yang semua orang buat tak pot??

Some even accused of it being undemocratic and too Malay centric

Ape lagi...malas mau cerita la beb....

nak debate sampai kiamat pun tak habis...

baik gua buat aje ape yang patut...

Berani? Ikut....

tak berani dok kat belakang aje....

sape mau lawan ....seleke..

KijangMas said...

msleepyhead (Jan.27, 2011 4:58 PM) said:-
"... just look at the corrupt Japanese ... This is surely the result of the thousands of year long influence of China on Japan. Even a whole city was shamelessly copied! Even their writing system was based on the Chinese characters ..."

Yup, their adoption/emulation of things Chinese are quite understandable as the Japanese themselves form the later wave of migrants to the Japanese islands, having radiated from present-day China and the Korean peninsula from c.500 BC and progressively overwhelming the orang asal Ainu population.

Maybe the curiously nons-dominated Orang Asal rights people here should go fight for the rights of the Ainu as well? Plus the rights of the couple hundred Orang Asal tribes in China crowded out of their homeland by the non-indigenous Han Chinese.


msleepyhead added:-
"Still, even our Tun M was so impressed he created the Dasar Pandang Timur for us to emulate, and look where it got us."

Yeah, where did it got us? More good than bad? 50:50? We are worst off? What about the alternative(s)? If we had maintained closer business ties with the West (at the expense of Japan/Korea), would we have developed differently? Or might we have become another culturally-confused Filipino-type people, with petty mimicry of things Western? Would the KLCC be better built (quality, time, cost) by European or American contractors? The Penang bridge?

What about our shipping fleet? French-built oil tankers? Ada ka? At the outset, should Proton and Perodua have collaborated with GM, Ford or VW instead of Mitsubishi and Daihatsu/Toyota?

Hindsight is, of course, 20/20.


msleepyhead:-
"... greedy Chinese are not what are stopping the Malays from progressing, it is just the culture itself that still has not progressed to the levels of material and technological advancement compared to others."

Yeah, on the same token, Article 153 alone is not what is stopping the nons from progressing socially in this country, in terms of patriotism and attachment to this land compared to the Malays and other Bumis.

Anyway, I don't particularly blame the nons for Malay economic underachievement. Self-improvement and the search for a better life are pre-programmed survival imperatives of the human species. This preponderance is more pronounced in races "fine-tuned" by generations of external threats and competition for survival. The Chinese obviously faced great hardships not only from foreign invaders but despotic emperors and cruel warlords as well.

The ones that got off the rickety tongkang alive in Malaya are in effect a naturally-sieved genepool of hardy, tenacious characters, distinct from the risk-averse country bumpkin cousins left behind in Kwangtung and Fukien and the weaker types who died in transit. The tougher sin khehs made it to faraway San Francisco and joined the Gold Rush and laboured on the U.S. transcontinental railroad. But they were unceremoniously dumped on boats and sent back by the Whites who were far less tolerant than the hospitable Malays.

The same survival-of-the-fittest culling process also shaped the Indians here. The hardy ones survived the tongkang trip, the malaria-infested estates, and economic deprivations with many of their descendants today excelling in the professions and specialised business segments.

As for the Malays, the Kelantanese in general exhibit higher survival traits -- tenacity, positive self-image, independence, willingness to fight at the slightest provocation (... and destroy stadiums) -- due to the same factors that affected the Chinese over the centuries -- relentless attacks by northern invaders, despotic rajas and cruel warlords, with whole villages often reduced to ashes in the aftermath of warfare and internecine conflict, and with the survivors having to repeatedly regroup, repulse the invaders and rebuild their communities. Others relocate and thrive elsewhere at the expense of other Malays.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead,

Anda berkata, "Nampaknya dalam pergerakan SSS ini juga mempunyai cara pendekatan yang berbeda - secara konfrontasi (seperti satD) atau secara halus (seperti sepadu)."

Apa yang anda "nampak" itu tidak tepat atau tidak jelas dinyatakan. Tidak ada beza perkara mahukan tindakan perundangan itu. Saya tidak kata tidak boleh lakukannya. Saya pun mahukannya. Hanya, so'al bila yang baik bagi melakukannya.

Saya pun tidak faham apa makna "cara pendekatan" yang anda maksudkan.

Dan saya tidak faham apa tujuan anda membuat komen seperti itu. Terutamanya memandangkan anda telah menyatakan anda bersetuju dan menyokong SSS.

Maka saya fikir tidak perlu kita "get side-tracked" didalam perkara memajukan pergerakan SSS ini. Dan tidak perlu berpanjangan mengulas "cara pendekatan", walau apa pun maksud perkataan perkataan itu.

Sekian kenyataan pendek saya kali ini.

sepadu.

ikhwan said...

msleepyhead,

memang diakui yang memerintah dan yang menggalakkan lagi penyuburan dan percambahan sekolah sekolah vernakular ini adalah kerajaan yang ada sekarang iaitu BN.

Tetapi persoalannya, adakah jika kita menukar kerajaan kepada kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat (PR) maka sekolah sekolah haram ini akan terhapus?

BN ini memang nampak dari luarannya (dan sememangnya dalaman pun) adalah parti perkauman tetapi yang lebih merbahaya adalah parti (contoh DAP dan PKR) yang dari luarannya nampak seperti tidak perkauman tetapi didalamnya penuh dengan intipati perkauman malah lebih dasyat lagi.

Lihat sahaja sikap sikap YB YB mereka. Jika isu tulisan papan tanda pun menjadi masalah? Isu memakai songkok pun menjadi masalah? Chin Peng hendak dibawa pulang? Sejarah mahu ditukar? Namewee menjadi pujaan? Bandar Sibu ingin ditukar nama menjadi Shi Wu?

Macam mana pula dengan SSS?

Adakah mereka mereka ini akan sokong?

Jauh panggang dari api.

Janganlah kita seperti kata pepatah: Keluar dari mulut harimau (BN) kemudian masuk pula ke mulut Buaya (PR).

Apa yang kita boleh buat sebagai rakyat biasa adalah cuba untuk menimbulkan kesedaran kebanyakan masyarakat. Kemudian apabila majoriti rakyat malaysia telah bersepakat, kerajaan (tidak kira PR atau BN) tidak dapat tidak pasti akur.

Inilah yang kita buat disini... "bising bising" disini dengan harapan mesej kita sampai kepada masyarakat dan pihak berkenaan.

Anonymous said...

msleepyhead kata, "kalau ingin mengharamkan sekolah2 vernakular kita harus bermula dengan pendokong2 sekolah2 ini seperti MIC, MCA dan juga UMNO."

Maksudnya ketuk kepala depa-depa ni dulu?

Setahu saya, UMNO sudah berpeluh sejak dari merdeka memperjuangkan sekolah kebangsaan dan tidak mahu sekolah jenis kebangsaan yang memecahbelahkan perpaduan ini.

Zaman UMNO, Mahathir pun dah cuba sekolah wawasan.

Tak menjadi juga sebab begitu degil orang-orang cina melalui Dong Zong dsb.

Apabila UMNO lemah, Najib melutut sakan kiri kanan atas bawah (ataupun memang Najib ni pendokong tegar sekolah jenis kebangsaan? re : Akta Pendidikan 1996), MCA pun mula berani bersahut-sahutan dengan dong zong. Belakangnya memang DAP totok. Everybody knows that. Tengoklah siapa dia timbalan menteri Pelajaran tu sendiri.

Jadi, bukannya mulakan dgn UMNO, not even MIC or MCA. Mulakan dengan kaum-kaum cauvinis cina yang sememangnya tidak mahu kepada Malaysia. Sememangnya mereka mahu kecinaan totok.

Mulakan dengan bahasa Kebangsaan. Tidak fasih, tukar mykad tu kepada mykad MERAH. Tak kira melayu tak sedar diri ke, cina ke, india ke. Asalkan tak fasih saja, kasi warning. Cukup masa, kalau degil juga buang kerakyatan.

Ketuk kepala dgn kayu kalau Dong Zong, MCA bising-bising lagi pasal sekolah jenis kebangsaan.

Mulakan dengan cauvinis cina, bukan UMNO, MCA ataupun MIC sebab cauvinis cina adalah dalam DAP, Dong Zong, dalam MCApun.

Bukan gitu?

KijangMas said...

HuaYong (Jan.29, 2011 2:25 AM) said:-
"... don’t we think phrase like “is this some obscure league in Liaoning province?” and “they cannot even decipher the foreign hieroglyphics?” could potentially alienates his audience and be less effective at presenting his perspective?"

Uhh? Alienate?

Why then did you people focus on a foreign tongue called Mandarin (Beijing putonghua no less) and not the Hokkien, Hakka, Cantonese, Hainanese and Teochew that you brought with you off the tongkang if you don't want to be mistaken by simple, unsophisticated folks like me as someone from Communist China?

You confuse us lah Ah Yong.

You try soooo very hard to be "pure" Chinese from bahasa to budaya to sikap to rupa to falsafah and whatnot BUT the moment you actually succeeded in this pantomime -- that made simple, unsophisticated folks like me truly believe you are a China-mali person -- you go berserk and demand apologies and cry wolf to the world on this insult and outrage and abuse of human rights and yadda yadda yadda ...

Like this how?

You want to be a Cina or not?

Ok, which Cina?

When you focus on Mandarin and not your mother tongue like Hokkien or Hakka, what makes you? a Cina Malaysia or a Cina from PRChina?

Again, if you are angry when simple folks like me think you are from Liaoning province, than you should communicate and write in Malaysia's national language lah, not China's national language.

Haiyah, why so susah one?


More HuaYong:-
"Ridzzy There are many things you can’t comprehend, perhaps due to your age ... I am baffle why your British boss is baffled about our system. Didn’t you told him his father or grandfather does play a role to create this fantastic system that we are having now?"

You got sixth sense ka Ah Yong? You can tell my buddy Ridzzy's age? How?

Anyway, so you think allowing Malaysian citizens to emulate the language, culture and values of a foreign nation is a "fantastic system"?

Ok, in that case, why then are you offended when simple, unsophisticated folks like me think you are from Liaoning province? You should have been proud of the effectiveness of this "fantastic system" where Malaysian-born MyCard holders are forged to be exact replicas of the China people.


HuaYong again:-
"... SSS is still a dream and fantasy, like Fantasy Island. What you read here and there and everywhere about SSS are all talks ..."

Yeah, Hosni Mubarak said the same thing 18 days ago when the first trickle of protest appeared at Tahrir Square; and German Jews brushed off Hitler as a short-lived political flavour of the month in the early 1930s when they still had the chance to escape Nazi Germany; and the Chinese community initially ridiculed 1932 coup plotter, then Lieut-Colonel Phibun Songkhram, son of a Cantonese-speaking China immigrant himself (hence, "one of them"), when he issued decrees to suppress Chinese identity in Siam, thinking it would be short-lived.

Dreams often become reality faster than you think once the mainstream rise up in sufficient numbers to overhaul the system.

Snuze said...

... can Hannah Yeoh or Gobind Singh or Loh Gwo Burne please enlighten the rest of us why you alienise yourselves from the mainstream on such joyous occasions?

Excellent question. *grin*

Dude, your post is so awesome it wins eleventy billion internet. Hope you keep blogging more often.

Some favourite remarks:

Their politics is driven by hate, by huge chips on their shoulders against the imaginary Malay bogeymen and based on personality cults revolving around the DAP Ah Peks and a feisty old Baii fronted by Malay Apologists such as Brother Anwar, acclaimed by his flock as Anugerah Tuhan, God's gift to this country.

I call this ailment the acute inbred cyber proselytising syndrome, a situation where small groups of anxious people from the lunatic fringes of society actually believe their own mutually reinforcing delusional thoughts to the point where they are convinced they can unilaterally retrofit (as the only "moving part" of Malaysia's complex socio-dynamics while the Malay Muslim majority lies frozen in suspended animation) the predominant societal ecosystem to suit their own parochial, prejudiced-laced ethno-cultural existence.

Apa ni? 10-20 orang main lilin birthday cake pun sudah mengaku jadi wakil seluruh rakyat Malaysia ka?

Malaysia to them is just a comfortable roost for the next leg of their multi-generational social journey towards some ill-defined promised land.


Thanks and keep up the good work!

ikhwan said...

HuaYong said:

___________________________________
I never agree that thought postulated here in DN as mainstream, to the contrary, I believe to uphold diversity is actually the mainstream base on current development.
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My comment;

I am speechless...

See folks,

I guess It is totally understandable how such remark could come out from such a truly delusional and confused "nons".

It is a classic example of a fantasy of self "make believed" mainstream of the classic rethoric "unity in diversity" being perceived as reality to this people. Is this really is alternative mainstream???

You and your kind are so immersed in your own fantasy that you couldnt even differentiate between what is real and fantasy.

My advise for you HuaYong, WAKEUP! before Malaysia turn into Egypt and people like you will surely pay a heavy price.

This is also probably the results of too much of reading Malaysia Today, Malaysian Insider, Nanyang Siang Pau and the likes.
_________________________________

By the way, thank you for the clarification on the re:white Aussie stuff. Is not it easier like this? No guessing games.

And forgive me for my mistake.

Regards

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